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[doomyoshi]

You'd be better off camping outside his home with a protest sign.

elf-style protest or goblin-style siege?

or even better: re-animating-biome style protest?

[Mudcrab]

You'd be better off camping outside his home with a protest sign.

elf-style protest or goblin-style siege?

or even better: re-animating-biome style protest?

Toady's garden is definitely a reanimating biome.

Also this post is lame, lame and looonng.

[Torrasque666]

So all the numerous posts recently under all those aliases finally lead up to this.

I would like to know what this refers too.

There have been a lot of posts saying similar things along these lines, so Finn is simply saying that they are all the same troll.

[NSKShadow]

Wait, you guys actually think the UI is bad? Woah, am I like totally messed up in the head then? I actually kinda like the UI, it adds to the spice of the game in my opinion.

And anyone who lacks the common sense to go "Oh, I don't understand this. Maybe I should search around a bit to understand it" clearly shouldn't be playing this game anyway. As with pretty much all other rougelikes, DF has a steeeep learning curve that we've come to understand. I mean, if the game's slogan is pretty much "Losing is !!Fun!!" then you should begin to ponder the chance that this game may not be your average Call of Duty - shoot 'em up where you simply point and click.

In my opinion, the game's look and UI is perfectly fine. It's not meant to have graphics, and the graphics tile sets that the modders of the community have made are perfect as they are. Any better graphics and can you imagine the kind of computer you'd need to run the game properly? I would much prefer Toady stock the game full of new features that make the game fun, and not make it look better because in my opinion, it looks great just the way it is.

TL;DR - No, I reject your opinion and believe you should get out. Now. With love.

[Putnam]

Graphics do need to be improved, though. Right now, it's done entirely with relatively ugly tilesets that muck up text something fierce. Graphics for constructions and items would go a long way in improving.

The UI also needs improved. It needs organization and consistency. I still mess myself up on the burrows screen sometimes. Organization here means, say, placing q,t,v,k together in the menu so that it's clear that all of those do the job of looking at things in different ways, or placing s,m in the same area to show that they're both military; stuff like that.

Also, the motto is "Losing is Fun" not exactly because the game is hard (and it's only hard if you want it to be), but because, in a game such as this, "losing" is still progress forward in the goal of "make an interesting world to play around in". In most games, losing is punishment; in this, it's reward. Losing in Fortress Mode gives you cool ruins to explore. Losing in Adventure Mode leaves history to be discovered.

A lot of people don't get Dwarf Fortress, and I understand why. Only with this next release is this idea of "Losing is Fun" as "Losing is progress" being realized.

Of course, Dwarf Fortress is what you make it to be. You can play it any way you want. But "Losing is Fun" represents the idea of losing adding more to the world.

[toomanysecrets]

Toady could start his own damned kickstarter any time he wanted. He hasn't.

[FrankMcFuzz]

Oh dearest OP. In my own humble 3 years+ experience with DF, I find that you're completely and horribly wrong about the UI, as someone who works with software all day. Everything is labelled, every shortcut is clearly on the screen when in its respective category, everything is organised in a logical fashion and most* are easy to remember. The only problems with the UI have already been fixed by fans (Dwarf Therapist, dfhack, etc). There are so many more aspects of this game that are more important, and guess what? Toady's working on it. Only because we, the dedicated fans, are able to support him to do so and not give randoms money for terrible ideas. OP, plz go to hole and get visit from GCS.



*Whoever thought z would be easy to remember** for 'kitchen' is a dick forgotten beast with acid blood.

**Yes I understand the irony that I remember it.

[Kolnukbyne]

*Whoever thought z would be easy to remember** for 'kitchen' is a dick forgotten beast with acid blood.

I always remembered it by pronouncing it as 'Kitzien' in my head. Works for me.

[ShadowHammer]

Two things:
Firstly,

*Whoever thought z would be easy to remember** for 'kitchen' is a dick forgotten beast with acid blood.

I always remembered it by pronouncing it as 'Kitzien' in my head. Works for me.

I remember it because severed limbs are a z and when things arms are severed they often die and kitchens use dead things from butchers shops to cook and...
Ok so it's a worse memory trick than "kitzien". Don't judge me 


Secondly,

TL;DR - No, I reject your opinion and believe you should get out. Now. With love.

Pretty much what I was thinking, but I would have probably said it in a slightly less harsh manner.

[Putnam]

Severed limbs aren't 'z', they're ^'2'...

[Finn]

So all the numerous posts recently under all those aliases finally lead up to this.

There's already a way to give Toady money to work on Dwarf Fortress and I use it.  I encourage you too as well.

Good luck Dude, I'm not giving you any money through Kickstarter or anything else.

If you actually read the post, you'd know he's not suggesting he would run the Kickstarter. He's proposing that Toady run one.

I did actually read the post, including that part.  But we all know Toady isn't going to do that.  So I was skipping ahead to the next post where, if he gets encouragement here he writes, "well, Toady is too modest to Kickstart this so let's do it for him...blah blah blah". 

I apologise if my extreme cynicism offended.  There have been a few of these posts recently, most similar in tone and style and all from single-post new accounts.  I thought I smelled a troll, I saw red, I entered a martial stance and posted.  Not my finest moment to be sure.

[Leonidus]

If any of you actually give a damn about the game and Toady, you need to see past your own insanity and start living in reality. 

The UI is not a problem? 

Acting like the UI is the only problem? 

I made small, legitimate criticism about the best unplayable game ever made and proposed a solution, therefore I must just be a noob, or a scammer, or whatever?

I propose that a 20 to 30 year project should be delayed for 6 months to a year to make it a better experience for everyone playing for the next 10 to 20 years and I'm the one who's crazy?

Not to mention it's blatantly obvious how many of you didn't read the post, which is pretty ironic for a forum where people read about a text for graphics game.

Wake the hell up, there's a ton of people who start playing this game and really like it but stop after a few months because of the endless problems and pointless tedium.  Not everyone wants to spend an hour picking up 200 pieces of clothing strewn about the floor (which dfhack's solution doesn't really solve).  Or the endless mozaic of forbidden bolts.  Or the sisyphean task of dealing with the military.  Or micromanaging basic construction of roofs/floors to prevent cave-ins.

Most people have only a few hours a day to enjoy themselves, and they don't want to spend 2 hours of it banging their head against a wall trying to get a dwarf to pick up a dumped item, and then have to resort to cheating at the end.  Not everyone is obsessive compulsive, masochistic, or unemployed.

Just look online for reasons why people stop playing DF (that is, those who got into it but stopped after a while).  It's almost never "Felt I accomplished everything I wanted in the game and experienced it to the fullest."  It's always "Endless, eternal, unstoppably maddening tedium of dealing with forever broken dwarfs."

You're all the kind of people who not only have the time to play such a game, but talk about it on the internet too.   You could at least give a damn about the multitude of other dwarf fortress players who don't.  The ones who want to enjoy this work of art, but are essentially forced out of playing.

And beyond that, you should care about Toady.  If he spends 6 months to a year, out of a 30 year plan, after 10 years of unrelenting feature addition, to polish his game that a lot of people are already playing, then down the line that time investment will mean a lot more people will play it regularly that wouldn't have otherwise.  It would change the curve of his donation income entirely.  Plus you would give him a huge 100,000$ bonus.

You think Toady doesn't care about his retirement?  You think he doesn't care about his healthcare?  He mentioned it in an interview already, that his healthcare plan is don't have one.  That his retirement plan is have enough to coast for maybe 3 or 4 years if donations stop entirely.  He's a human being like you and me, not some machine that spits out code and dwarfs.  And other players than the ones on this forum are human beings too, they deserve to enjoy the game without contemplating ritual suicide after another dwarf gets punched in the brain because he failed a production mandate.

No, you'd rather get your extra 6 month or year worth of features.  That's what you really care about?  Did ruling over dwarves destroy your humanity?

I give a damn, and I proposed a solution, that the community give Toady a bonus for a hard 6 month to years work of making this game play better for 10 to 20 years.

That's not fucking wrong. 

[WanderingKid]

If any of you actually give a damn about the game and Toady, you need to see past your own insanity and start living in reality. 

The UI is not a problem? 

Acting like the UI is the only problem?

DFHack and the numerous amounts of bugs it cures is an indication that the player base is well aware of the bugs that inhabit DF.  The UI is a detriment to the game, agreed.  It's a working model that only supports power-users as a debug menu more than as a UI.

Other than the old NetHack gamers, I don't think anyone will argue you on that particular point.
 

I made small, legitimate criticism about the best unplayable game ever made and proposed a solution, therefore I must just be a noob, or a scammer, or whatever?

I propose that a 20 to 30 year project should be delayed for 6 months to a year to make it a better experience for everyone playing for the next 10 to 20 years and I'm the one who's crazy?

No, ignorant, and I don't mean that the cruel way.  You are amongst the intelligent, and newer, playerbase who all get frustrated at some point and detail an intelligent method to attempt to assist Toady with what you see to be a problem.  The ignorance comes in for three parts.
1) Toady has explicitly stated that everyone can damned well keep his hands out of his toybox.
2) He'll work on the parts that are actually interesting to him at any particular time, and only occassionally does he want to do bug corrections.  This makes point 1 particularly frustrating in some ways.
3) He's explicitly stated he intends to fix up the UI last, because it's a wrapper for the code and he doesn't want the code to have to conform to a wrapper.

Wake the hell up, there's a ton of people who start playing this game and really like it but stop after a few months because of the endless problems and pointless tedium.  Not everyone wants to spend an hour picking up 200 pieces of clothing strewn about the floor (which dfhack's solution doesn't really solve).  Or the endless mozaic of forbidden bolts.  Or the sisyphean task of dealing with the military.  Or micromanaging basic construction of roofs/floors to prevent cave-ins.

Then these are people who have heard about the cool stories that can occur in DF, but don't want to play a simulator.  DF is not a high speed game, and is not meant to keep you permanently engaged.  I've actually had forts run in the background for hours while I'm at work and I just keep an eye on the occassional announcements for highly successful forts running at low FPS.

Most people have only a few hours a day to enjoy themselves, and they don't want to spend 2 hours of it banging their head against a wall trying to get a dwarf to pick up a dumped item, and then have to resort to cheating at the end.  Not everyone is obsessive compulsive, masochistic, or unemployed.

While I might be the first of that list, I am neither of the other two.  Out of curiousity, did you ever play any of the OLDER Sim Cities?

You're all the kind of people who not only have the time to play such a game, but talk about it on the internet too.   You could at least give a damn about the multitude of other dwarf fortress players who don't.  The ones who want to enjoy this work of art, but are essentially forced out of playing.

Why, because they paid so much money to play it?  DF is a hobby as much as it is a game.  I've spent hours painting models for Warhammer 40k, endless cycles of shooting my friends in the head on CoD, and many, many hours waiting for planes to reach 13,000 feet so I can jump out of them.

I don't disagree that DF couldn't be more engaging, but it's a mirror.  It gives back as much as you'll put into it.  That is too high for some people, and that's okay.  Not every game should appeal to everyone.

And beyond that, you should care about Toady.  [snip]

You misunderstand.  We filter this so he doesn't have to answer this question over... and over... and over... and over... and over...  so he can spend time coding.

And other players than the ones on this forum are human beings too, they deserve to enjoy the game without contemplating ritual suicide after another dwarf gets punched in the brain because he failed a production mandate.

Wow, so serious.  C'mon, ritual suicide?

No, you'd rather get your extra 6 month or year worth of features.  That's what you really care about?  Did ruling over dwarves destroy your humanity?

I give a damn, and I proposed a solution, that the community give Toady a bonus for a hard 6 month to years work of making this game play better for 10 to 20 years.

That's not fucking wrong.

No, as I said, just ignorant.  Search the forums for 'kickstarter' or 'open source' or any other number of methods that the masses could assist Toady with his code base and load.  You'll find many different topics, all with the same premise.

And at the top of that hierarchy is Toady, with a single statement (paraphrased):
"I'll let you know when I want help.  This is my baby, and I don't want your hands in it and I don't want your financial pressure to do a particular item."

[Ruhn]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out the Suggestion Voting page.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/eternal_voting.php

Right now abstraction of the interface is 6th most popular request.  If Toady decided to do it, that would achieve a similar goal.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having certain workshop item hotkeys standardized (n builds bins within forge menus, just like at the woodshop) and also change the hotkey that deletes a burrow.  I have facepalmed and #ragequit so many times from trying to (d)esignate my current burrow.  As many know, this deletes it instantly. 

But I don't care so much.  My main fort is still in 31.25

[itg]

Snip 

People definitely jumped on you unfairly, but Toady is far from unaware that the UI is bad, he knows UI improvements are in high demand, and he has heard of Kickstarter, so it's pretty unlikely that he just failed to put 2 and 2 together.