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[scriver]

Oi you two, pants back on now. 

You were having a dick measuring contest.

[GreatWyrmGold]

>.>

I will cease arguing, but I do disagree with several of those(I did do calculations wrong, but it wasn't by much).

Several of which? The figures? Numbers don't lie; 2675>2450, (760000/4)>170000, etc.

[My Name is Immaterial]

GWG, your pants are still around your ankles.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not in a dick-measuring contest, whatever that was intended to mean, I'm trying to explain why my points are valid.

[TealNinja]

I'm not in a dick-measuring contest, whatever that was intended to mean, I'm trying to explain why my points are valid.

It was an argument that didn't serve the thread and wasn't relevant because noone was going to try to use the "exploit" anyway.  You guys could have solved it in a PM easily enough.

[Culise]

At *any* rate, back to sinking ships with usual or unusual methods, I do have a question.  What average technology level are we looking at?  Are we still classic D&D without any form of gunpowder or anything more incendiary than alchemist's fire or spells (which are, to be fair, pretty incendiary themselves), have people started only recently started designing gunpowder/smokepowder bombards suitable for shipboard use, or have we reached a point where naval combat with cannon is the norm and catapults or boarding parties the exception? 

[Remuthra]

At *any* rate, back to sinking ships with usual or unusual methods, I do have a question.  What average technology level are we looking at?  Are we still classic D&D without any form of gunpowder or anything more incendiary than alchemist's fire or spells (which are, to be fair, pretty incendiary themselves), have people started only recently started designing gunpowder/smokepowder bombards suitable for shipboard use, or have we reached a point where naval combat with cannon is the norm and catapults or boarding parties the exception?

Age of Sail.

[Culise]

Yay, cannon and gunpowder are a go.  OK, so my notion is that Immoveable Rods are all and nice, but they don't make very big holes.  After all, you can simply take barrels of gunpowder (cost "insignificant" in arming a ship, though that may be changed by GM's word) or alchemist's fire (50 GP), swim them under the ship (carrying them in a Bag of Holding or the like, if you don't have a very large weight capacity), optionally Sovereign Glue them to the hull, and detonate the whole shebang from a distance with something like Mage's Hand or a really long wax-coated fuse.  Break the ship's back, and all that pretty armor isn't worth much. 

Oh, this talk of underwater combat did make me wonder something.  With Energy Substitution (Electricity), do I have to worry if I attempt to cast electric spells underwater about lashback or grounding, or can I assume that whatever magic keeps a Lightning Bolt from straying to the nearest metal object aboveground also keeps it from dissipating out in seawater?  It mentions fire in the DMG, but not electricity. 

[Rolepgeek]

Alchemist's fire requires air...gunpowder is almost certainly going to cost money, but is certainly possible. Not that immovable rods don't make a small hole. Just that if you do it in the right place, get lucky, place them right, etc., they can make a large whole(place it so the ship is cut along one side, essentially, by it, for example, or so it breaks the center-piece thing. Would need to place it sideways, though, for the record). Or place it so it breaks their mast.

Mostly just because I think it would be cool, is all. An Immovable Staff would work better for the purpose, though. Or a set of them. Three would let you tear a rather large chunk, underwater or not.

[Culise]

Alchemist's fire requires air...gunpowder is almost certainly going to cost money, but is certainly possible. Not that immovable rods don't make a small hole. Just that if you do it in the right place, get lucky, place them right, etc., they can make a large whole(place it so the ship is cut along one side, essentially, by it, for example, or so it breaks the center-piece thing. Would need to place it sideways, though, for the record). Or place it so it breaks their mast.

Mostly just because I think it would be cool, is all. An Immovable Staff would work better for the purpose, though. Or a set of them. Three would let you tear a rather large chunk, underwater or not.

Ah, didn't know that about alchemist's fire; I was going off the Stormwrack entry on the Firebomb.  Same with the cost for gunpowder; it came out of Stormwrack's sidebar on presence of gunpowder in a setting where gunpowder is common, but it feels weird to me as well (hence my note on the GM changing it). 

Honestly, there's no reason that both ideas can't be used.  My notion also made me think that (perhaps literal as well as littoral) anti-frogmen techniques such as torpedo netting (now with permanencied Alarm spells), trained animals, and the like are more likely to become a thing should a military situation arise.  For a ship at sea, the best protection will be speed, and maybe a good water watch with counter-attackers with Swim spells, I think, since what I described is essentially nothing but a hand-delivered limpet mine.  A caravel underway will have a speed equal to the wind x 30' on average, which means that a wind speed of 2'/round (or 1'/3 seconds) modifier of Moderate or higher (rolling 66-100 on the random table 1-2 even in fair weather, 21-100 in variable weather, or guaranteed in stormy weather, or however otherwise set by the GM) will be enough to outspeed a lot of people should they miss the hull once, in air or on sea. 

EDIT: Flubbed my understanding of how wind is specified in Stormwrack.  And your 80' move speed in the air will be much better for keeping up, since it requires a 3x modifier to outspeed. 

[Rolepgeek]

Also the part where if I'm flying the wind helps me too.

Caravels should really be able to go pretty fast though; average speed was 4 knots, max was about 8. Or about 13 feet per second maximum, 6.5 average. Meaning maybe 80 feet per round maximum, 40 average. I can keep up if they aren't in favorable weather(and in favorable weather I would think I would go faster too).

Also, I can donate maybe 7,000 gp now that I've cut some stuff(I was at 39,000 gp before).

Also, dragonsbreath arrows and serpentstongue arrows; no not-on-fire for you, no ropes for you either. >:[

[Taricus]

...We only start with 32400 gold RPgeek :/

[Rolepgeek]

I know. I was at 39000 before I cut stuff, since I needed to to make that limit anyway. Now I'm at about 25000.

[Taricus]

Ah, alright. Guess this is the benefit of team evil: You're stuff is MUCH cheaper, especially the adamantine and mithril equipment.

[Rolepgeek]

Well I found that having +3 armor and +1 bonus ring is cheaper than +2 armor and +2 bonus ring.