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[Simon]

Guys, guys...

Is it really true, that I can't kill the first (green level) bosses with a roster of lvl. 3+s? 'Cause I painstakingly (you have no idea what amount of emotional, physical and mental pain is hidden behind this word) leveled up EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN' CLASS to level three, and now they refuse to do lower level runs. Is there no way around this? Can't you finish off the lower level bosses on veteran and higher, so I can use my guys/gals? Do I really have to level up a new batch of goons, spending sick hours I already spent?

Did the game really just meta-fuck me over?

[Bauglir]

Yes, No there is not, No, Yes, and Yes.

[Boltgun]

No to the last, the bosses are not mandatory and you can use your level 3s to fund you new heroes.

[Simon]

I know the bosses aren't mandatory, but they offer welcome refreshment compared to all the generic monsters you've slain hundreds of. So I wanted to kill them all.

And leveling up low levels again is just... tedious. Mainly since I've already got all the classes up to at least level 3.

Man... DD just never stops trying to get me off computer games for good, does it?

EDIT: I guess the bosses would be really easy for veteran level characters. It's a shame, though, they couldn't at least level up all the bosses along your characters (or at least give you the opportunity to do ALL the bosses on ALL difficulties). *SIGH*

[Bauglir]

(or at least give you the opportunity to do ALL the bosses on ALL difficulties).

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that. I don't even consider it a spoiler - check out the Caretaker's list of goals for you in the activity log. It lists all the bosses in the game right from the word "go", unless that's changed lately.

[nenjin]

Guys, guys...

Is it really true, that I can't kill the first (green level) bosses with a roster of lvl. 3+s? 'Cause I painstakingly (you have no idea what amount of emotional, physical and mental pain is hidden behind this word) leveled up EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN' CLASS to level three, and now they refuse to do lower level runs. Is there no way around this? Can't you finish off the lower level bosses on veteran and higher, so I can use my guys/gals? Do I really have to level up a new batch of goons, spending sick hours I already spent?

Did the game really just meta-fuck me over?

Welcome to the last 2 pages me of me bitching about this game. I pretty much did the same thing you did; leveled all the classes meticulously one at a time so they were all the same level. The difference is I KNEW the game's rules about who can't run what....and I still managed to get jammed up in the late game with upgrades vs. hero levels.

[LordPorkins]

I think yalls just need to do a dark run once and awhile. Maybe like 1 dark, 3 light, repeat. Dark runs easily double you loot haul.

[nenjin]

I think yalls just need to do a dark run once and awhile. Maybe like 1 dark, 3 light, repeat. Dark runs easily double you loot haul.

And wreck heroes. If you don't care about any of your heroes, dark runs are great. If you're trying to keep them, they can easily end up a wash.

[LordPorkins]

I think yalls just need to do a dark run once and awhile. Maybe like 1 dark, 3 light, repeat. Dark runs easily double you loot haul.

And wreck heroes. If you don't care about any of your heroes, dark runs are great. If you're trying to keep them, they can easily end up a wash.

Well, theirs a 50/50 chance. I think RNGesus has been lenient on my with dark runs in exchange for always giving bosses crits.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think your heroes are supposed to get wrecked, actually...

[nenjin]

That's been my struggle with this game. I tend to not like losing guys. Not in XCOM, Mordheim or any of these team-based hero games. I don't find losing heroes "Fun" when there's so much riding on them.

And for the most part, I've been successful playing DD carefully, not losing anyone. But as I said above, the game does not seem balanced around a full roster surviving. Whether that's "inconceivable" or they just never though people could/would cheat, you end up not being able to advance much further beyond a certain bottleneck WITHOUT losing heroes. And that's what I find irritating. If I play well, play smart, no one dies...why does the game then effectively force me to either ditch heroes or throw them into dungeons they're undergeared for?

Put another way: if you play well you're effectively delaying the "pain" part of the game until the late game, when everything a hero needs to do costs more and you've already invested significant (5k+) gold into each of them.

If you just 24/7 dark run Level 0 and 1 dungeons until you unlock the Blacksmith completely, and just ditch heroes immediately after their run unless it was flawless, then yeah the game's difficulty isn't an issue. If you try to save heroes though....that's where the game sticks you between a rock and a hard place.

[ChairmanPoo]

:shrug: I'm more used to the original XCOM. In which the machine for success came greased by the blood of rookies.

Speaking of which I have to check if they have released a new version of XCOM redux yet..

[nenjin]

I get that's what the genre is about. I'm always trying to refute it though. And in all honesty, up until Level 5 and Champion dungeons, I felt like I was. But the game is a hell of a lot smoother on the difficulty curve in release than it was in EA.

[Bauglir]

Yeah, I'm gonna say that if you want to ditch that sort of thing, you have to throw off a bit more of the game's assumptions. Don't bother tailoring parties to dungeons. Make a few parties that can handle a lot of different situations tolerably, instead of a few that each handle one type of run extremely well, and only worry about Kleptomaniac and the various Phobe quirks when it comes to the Sanitarium (which should be upgraded in preference to the Abbey to reduce costs and maximize slots). Tailor your item loadouts to dungeons, for sure, but not your parties.

Spoiler: Consider one of my favorite parties (click to show/hide)

Occultist, Plague Doctor, Houndmaster, Hellion

The Occultist must have Wyrd Reconstruction, but should also have Weakening Curse (essentially preemptive healing) and Abyssal Artillery. I like Eldritch Pull for the 4th slot, but YMMV.
Plague Doctor should have Battlefield Medicine, Noxious Blast, Blinding Gas, and Plague Grenade. Equip trinkets that buff Stun and Blight chances. Blasphemous Vials are worth the extra Stress if you've got 'em.
Houndmaster should have Lick Wounds, Hound's Harry, Hound's Rush, and Blackjack. A Cudgel Weight is a good trinket.
Hellion should have Iron Swan, If It Bleeds, your choice of Wicked Hack or Bleed Out, and Adrenaline Rush. Trinkets that boost damage or critical rate should be preferred, even to stress reduction - she'll get a lot of relief from all the killing, so she's not at much risk unless you're already in a bad spot. And the best way out of one of those is to kill it, because you generally can't win attrition fights.

Everyone has healing ability, although self-only in your front line, but you're likely in good shape to handle bad luck. You can target any enemy rank with Stun, Blight, and Bleed as needed. The Hellion, and the Houndmaster if you use a biscuit, can project high damage to any enemy rank. Your biggest threat is stress-inducers, because you didn't bring anybody who can fix it in combat. Mostly, they're vulnerable to Stun - target them with it and kill them before moving on to other threats. Bring enough food to Feast at every camp, and make use of the Hellion's new party-wide Revel in a pinch. Keep the lights up, too. In general, stress-reducing trinkets are fantastic.

But, really, the short version is this - build your party around itself rather than the challenges they'll face. You expect them to live for a while, so synergy is the most important thing.

EDIT: That party also doesn't do well with shuffling, but as long as it's a rare occurrence can usually rearrange fast enough to recover.

[ChairmanPoo]

I'm following someone's advice with the houndmaster and... yes, he's a pretty good dodge tank...