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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN!  (Read 136068 times)

Squill

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #390 on: November 01, 2013, 05:17:00 am »

Motherfuck. Forgot about the whole "Halloween" thing being yesterday when I posted.

@Imp: I think it's possible that you are pretending to be upset to appeal to townies. After all, what better way to look like town than, when the game goes poorly, to be the loudest one decrying your fate?
@bsnott: Are you here? Why bother replacing if you aren't gonna play?
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #391 on: November 01, 2013, 07:03:52 am »

Motherfuck. Forgot about the whole "Halloween" thing being yesterday when I posted.

@Imp: I think it's possible that you are pretending to be upset to appeal to townies. After all, what better way to look like town than, when the game goes poorly, to be the loudest one decrying your fate?
@bsnott: Are you here? Why bother replacing if you aren't gonna play?

Squill, your question confuses me.  What fate do you see me decrying?

I have spoken of being depressed by inactivity.  Without more activity in this thread, I'm not going to have much more to give this game - I'm understanding better how players work as a team, and how truly little any one player can do alone.

I am outraged by the lack of rules enforcement and following.  That's not a player issue, as in it's not any player's fault (the absence from play is but the enforcement of that is not a player's fault) and its nothing any player can fix.  I've stated my views clearly on that issue, the Mod has made his decision, and I've also stated that if most of the other players in this game are going to be active then I'm going to play too.

Do you believe I'm trying to look Town by being the loudest one decrying my fate?
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #392 on: November 01, 2013, 06:32:14 pm »

~24 hours to day end

Imp - Rolepgeek
squill -
bsnott -
Rolepgeek -
Tiruin -

1 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

bsnott and Tiruin have been prodded


The ~24 hours to day end post was made about 19.5 hours ago.  Approximately 4.5 hours remain.

Rolepgeek has placed the only vote so far, he has placed the only extension request so far.  In the odd chance that any of you super quiet and voteless people want to extend further, I add mine to that pile.

I'm vote lead, everyone else tied for second place.

Rolepgeek is my top scum pick for reasons already explained before I removed my vote from him end of D2 to break a tie.

Deathsword now Tiruin is my second scummiest choice, for reasons also explained near end of D2.  If this game was actually being played I'd be discussing a few things with Tiruin, specifically why she voted as she did near the end of D2.  She too had suspicions of Rolepgeek.  If I'd been less upset about the apathy of the town and the state of the rules, and if she'd been more available to talk, we might have agreed upon a Rolepgeek lynch - no other players appeared active.  She's still my second highest Scum choice, almost entirely because of Deathsword's play (she inherited his role, be it Town or Scum) and her own posts made once she got active in the thread.  I will say that her final D2 post was coherent and reasonable - she even asks me why -I- voted for Darvi - after listing essentially all the reasons I had already posted.

By the time she made that post, I was already far from a computer, and unable to return until a good bit after Day close.

Squill, you're third scummiest to me; well played if you're actually Scum.

Mr.Zero, now bsnott, is my top Town choice, bsnott 100% inheriting what I thought of Mr.Zero's play.  Also well played, Mr.Zero, if you're actually Scum.

I know that if I'm lynched Town loses, but only I and Scum know that.  I also know, as all do, that if there's a tie, a no lynch, Town loses.  My ability to make meaningful 'pro-Town choices' is about nil without at least one of the voteless players getting in here and making a choice.  I'll try to be available if anyone wants to get in here and discuss something.  My vote's somewhat flexible, I don't have a super-strong feel for any of you, mainly because of participation issues.

One more extend vote buys more time, should any of you think you'd use it.
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #393 on: November 01, 2013, 09:23:30 pm »

Motherfuck. Forgot about the whole "Halloween" thing being yesterday when I posted.

@Imp: I think it's possible that you are pretending to be upset to appeal to townies. After all, what better way to look like town than, when the game goes poorly, to be the loudest one decrying your fate?
@bsnott: Are you here? Why bother replacing if you aren't gonna play?
Hello, this is the first chance I've gotten to come back on the forums in quite a while now. I've been busy with some stuff (mostly GTA V, got it a few days ago) This is my first game, so I was looking for a beginner's mafia and he needed a replacement. If you have any other questions, feel free.

@SquillWhat games have you been playing lately?

@Imp What's your story so far?

@Tiruin Sorry I haven't been active until this point. How has your day been, and do you have any idea who may or may not be scum?
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #394 on: November 01, 2013, 09:32:20 pm »

Hi bsnott.  Making the story short - we are at a point where the game ends in 90 minutes unless we lynch scum.

We are also one extension vote from having more time to talk, another ~ 2 days.

Your call guy, I've already voted for an extension (as has Rolepgeek).

You've also placed a vote upon me.  If the game doesn't extend, and if you are wrong about me being Scum, then  Town loses.

This is perfect play if you're Scum, thanks for making it a quick and clean end.

If you choose to extend this game and talk, I'm ready to accept that as complete proof that you're Town.

If you're Scum you don't need to - make it quick and clean. You hold the win in your hands right now, and you have no need to change anything.  That is why I accept you as Town, period, if you choose not to make it quick and clean - you don't have to 'play'.  I do NOT expect you to assume anything about me, and I will discuss freely your question about my story and anything else you'd like to ask.

If you intend to talk, if you want time for your questions to be answered - type extend in bold before the day ends - you have ~90 minutes.  I seriously doubt we shall see Tiruin or Squill in time to vote or extend, so really, it's your call.

Thanks for playing.  Game kinda needs you, no matter your role.  Thank you, no matter your role.
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #395 on: November 01, 2013, 09:37:45 pm »

Extend.
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #396 on: November 01, 2013, 09:41:15 pm »

Thank you.  I'm at work right now, and my shift ends in about 30 minutes.  I have a commitment after it, that lasts about 1-2 hours.  Then I have all night.  You probably don't - so how about we spend the next few minutes chatting?  You ask, I answer.  When you ask for my 'story', is there specific stuff you'd like to hear first?
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
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If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Squill

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #397 on: November 01, 2013, 09:44:46 pm »

Motherfuck. Forgot about the whole "Halloween" thing being yesterday when I posted.

@Imp: I think it's possible that you are pretending to be upset to appeal to townies. After all, what better way to look like town than, when the game goes poorly, to be the loudest one decrying your fate?
@bsnott: Are you here? Why bother replacing if you aren't gonna play?

Squill, your question confuses me.  What fate do you see me decrying?
@Imp: I'm saying that if you were a scum, it makes a lot of sense for you to be the one saying that all is lost for town.
@SquillWhat games have you been playing lately?
@bsnott:Finally managed to get Metro: Last Light for a good price.
But isn't it a bit late for random questions? Your predecessor was thought to be both probably town and probably scum by a lot of people. Why do you think there are such wildly different views on him?

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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #398 on: November 01, 2013, 09:45:08 pm »

Thank you.  I'm at work right now, and my shift ends in about 30 minutes.  I have a commitment after it, that lasts about 1-2 hours.  Then I have all night.  You probably don't - so how about we spend the next few minutes chatting?  You ask, I answer.  When you ask for my 'story', is there specific stuff you'd like to hear first?
I want you to tell me the story of this game, so far, from your view. Answer me, and I'll answer any questions from you.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:47:12 pm by bsnott »
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #399 on: November 01, 2013, 09:46:46 pm »

Motherfuck. Forgot about the whole "Halloween" thing being yesterday when I posted.

@Imp: I think it's possible that you are pretending to be upset to appeal to townies. After all, what better way to look like town than, when the game goes poorly, to be the loudest one decrying your fate?
@bsnott: Are you here? Why bother replacing if you aren't gonna play?

Squill, your question confuses me.  What fate do you see me decrying?
@Imp: I'm saying that if you were a scum, it makes a lot of sense for you to be the one saying that all is lost for town.
@SquillWhat games have you been playing lately?
@bsnott:Finally managed to get Metro: Last Light for a good price.
But isn't it a bit late for random questions? Your predecessor was thought to be both probably town and probably scum by a lot of people. Why do you think there are such wildly different views on him?
This is my first game that I've actually played in, and the only game that I've watched through I saw that they asked random questions. Who, in your opinion, is scum? Why do you think so?
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zombie urist

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #400 on: November 01, 2013, 09:50:54 pm »

Never edit your posts!  >:(

Day extended to Tuesday November 5th 9PM PST

Imp - Rolepgeek, bsnott
squill -
bsnott -
Rolepgeek - Imp
Tiruin -

Not voting - squill, Tiruin

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

Be active. ;)
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #401 on: November 01, 2013, 09:52:12 pm »

Sorry, just inserted the quote. :o
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #402 on: November 01, 2013, 09:56:22 pm »

Here's the very short quick answer to that, and the -why- is especially incomplete.  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130600.msg4733848#msg4733848

My boss just said we're done, so I have even less time to answer than I expected.  You will be answered tonight, so feel free to ask additional questions for me to also answer.

I will ask you questions, but not many.  If you're scum, you have to be playing with me.  You actually have a good reason - first game, need to learn how to play.  I don't care; for my sanity and the fact your appearance at the end of the game, with a second vote on me (guaranteeing that we'd need both Squill and Tiruin to agree to vote with me on one of the Scum (you and geek I assume in that case) - well, we have 0 chance of that.  You had the win, if you're Scum, and you didn't take it.  Therefore, you are not Scum.

The main reason to ask questions is to catch Scum - to figure out who is Scum and who is Town.  Since I am convinced you are Town (and for my sanity, I have to stay convinced... it's not fun to be toyed with and you had the win if so)... I have very little to ask you except 'what would you like to know' and 'what is your opinion'... possibly 'does this make sense' or 'do you agree'.

Once I get my errand done, I'm back here and typing.  I'll try hard not to 'wall of text' you too much with my answers - it's hard for me to be 'short and sweet'.  I'll try to be, while answering you fully.  I'll probably wall of text anyway, that's my style and really my only one.
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #403 on: November 01, 2013, 10:03:52 pm »

Here's the very short quick answer to that, and the -why- is especially incomplete.  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130600.msg4733848#msg4733848

My boss just said we're done, so I have even less time to answer than I expected.  You will be answered tonight, so feel free to ask additional questions for me to also answer.

I will ask you questions, but not many.  If you're scum, you have to be playing with me.  You actually have a good reason - first game, need to learn how to play.  I don't care; for my sanity and the fact your appearance at the end of the game, with a second vote on me (guaranteeing that we'd need both Squill and Tiruin to agree to vote with me on one of the Scum (you and geek I assume in that case) - well, we have 0 chance of that.  You had the win, if you're Scum, and you didn't take it.  Therefore, you are not Scum.

The main reason to ask questions is to catch Scum - to figure out who is Scum and who is Town.  Since I am convinced you are Town (and for my sanity, I have to stay convinced... it's not fun to be toyed with and you had the win if so)... I have very little to ask you except 'what would you like to know' and 'what is your opinion'... possibly 'does this make sense' or 'do you agree'.

Once I get my errand done, I'm back here and typing.  I'll try hard not to 'wall of text' you too much with my answers - it's hard for me to be 'short and sweet'.  I'll try to be, while answering you fully.  I'll probably wall of text anyway, that's my style and really my only one.
Alright, you've convinced me. Unvote. Could you state your reasons for voting Rolepgeek please?

@Rolepgeek, explain this game from your eyes.
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 - ONE REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #404 on: November 02, 2013, 01:59:24 am »

Basic history of the game, with a heavy focus on the interactions of myself and Rolepgeek.:

This link may be useful for you, it is the lurker tracker for the game.  You can use it to view each player's posts in a somewhat organized fashion.  It'll also tell you when each player last posted and who they posted for.

One thing it's great for is counting who posted however many posts, or scrolling backwards or forwards through a specific player's posts if you wish to do so.  Ignore it if it doesn't serve your purposes.

'My story', limited to D3 and the players still alive.  There's a longer version, encoded through the thread, voting patterns and such may matter but unless you ask for other details, I'll keep it to current and relevant - that means talking only about those alive, but I find as I type it that I must give brief mention to the involved dead.  I'm trying to keep it brief... I seriously fail at brief.  I think of things as entire wholes.

Rolepgeek initially appeared Townlike to me.  He asked questions of all players in the initial days of the game and followed up on several answers (this is generally considered Townlike behavior, though at the time I did not know this.  This is also my first Mafia game, not just here but anywhere - I have been accepted into two other non-beginner games, both of which started in the last 10 days... my play has drastically grown because I have learned a huge amount fast).

Meanwhile during these first few days of play, I (who also was interacting with everyone) had become alarmed at the very start of the game by Deathsword (replaced by Tiruin) having posted as an IC instructing players to use quotes when answering each other - but then failing to obey his own direction.  This seemed Scummy to me and I questioned Deathsword on it.

In this post Rolepgeek challenges me on my concerns, interpreting my post as having nothing to do with Scummy behavior but matters of behavior and ettiquette.  He says it is not scum-hunting, but taking things out of context.  He challenges my other questions as too specific to  have a point, that more vague questions would give info about playstyle and general demeanor, but I appear to be active lurking and not helping anyone.  All of these are near quotes lifted from his post I linked in this paragraph.  I am the first player he presses outside of true random voting and I answer him here.

At this point I'm chasing three players, The first super lurky Lukenator (now Persus13 - died Night 1 to the Scum, proven vanilla Town); the second, superblackcat, who was pushing from the start of play to begin with two days of no-lynches, but who was not Scumhunting himself and never actually did much of anything (superblackcat died Night 2 to the Scum, proven vanilla role blocker);  the third Kleril who doesn't press any questions or give reasons for his obviously reluctantly placed vote maked after being challenged by Mr.Zero (now you) and Deathsword (now Tiruin) - from his post voting me he shifts to saying "Imp, I do not believe that you are scum. Really, you have me completely convinced that you are town, and that's what I'm wary about. Your words have a lot of sway, and it scares me." He is unable or unwilling to explain his vote, or his sudden switch to 'complete conviction' that I am Town, at least in a way that satisfies me or several others it must have been a misunderstanding, but at the time I believe he is Scum trying to cover tracks and mistakes - I also believe I catch him in a lie about the misunderstanding, challenge that too; he largely gives up trying to explain himself at that point) Kleril is the D1 lynch and he is proved to be vanilla Town.

Rolepgeek continues to challenge me over my challenge to Deathsword (which I had dropped totally before he challenged me about it the first time), including saying "Imp, you still keep taking stuff out of context. Stop it." followed by a defense of Deathsword.  I reply "I had stopped it, as of post #69.  You reopened it with post #102 and included it as one of two reasons why I earned your vote.  When I challenge someone's behavior, I want to see their response.  You say 'stop it' when I respond to you. Rephrasing to simplify my still unanswered question to you:  You wrote, directed at me, 'Yeah, you're asking questions, and yeah, they're related to the game, but they don't actually help anyone.'  Do you perceive all of my questions to be of the active-lurking sort?"

His answer is the last of his regular replies for an entire week (he does place two one liners during this week), and he answers "So I'm gonna answer in a short way first. The answer is no. Not all of them.  The long answer is yes. The overwhelming majority, and almost everything past the first post, is active-lurking. You aren't scum-hunting, you're commenting on other people's behaviour(but mostly their semantics and nuances of speech, etc., rather than actual scummy activity), asking for clarifications occasionally, made fun of Kleril for a bit... really, it's just frustrating, because I can tell you're intelligent. You're just not focusing on the right parts."

When he comes back after a week's absence, he launches an offensive and almost assaultive post primarily about how annoyed he is at me especially for a post I made six days earlier, but also addressing his lurkiness and how he hasn't been following the game and isn't prepared to answer almost anyone's questions to him.  His charming return to play includes comments like these:  "First, let's respond to questions. Then, I can pick apart Imp at my leisure. Mostly Imp because he's been annoying me"  I challenge his attacks upon me and state that I do not wish to interact with him further, that I hope someone else will handle the Scumhunting in regards to him, though I will if I must.

Rolepgeek follows with another delaying post the next day, claiming "Posting to show I'm not ignoring this. Put it off too long to be able to post it tonight, but I've got the post saved on my computer. Will finish it and post it tomorrow. It has all my answers and such, and more."  The next day he provides a long post where he unvotes, asks for replacement (it's October 9th - note he is still here and still asking for replacement even now), tries to answer the questions he promised and mainly does so by explaining how confused he is about who posted what, how he's unsure if he can remember what he was thinking when he said things, how he's lazy and unmotivated, and how he cannot support his previously given Town and FoS picks.  He does express his reaction to my challenge to him telling me "It was pretty impolite. So was mine, to a point, and I apologize for that, but yours was quite a bit worse."  He remains semi-inactive through the rest of D1 and returns to 'replace me, but I'll be active now' play D2.

During D2, he and Deathsword team to challenge me, essentially ignoring everyone else.  They both appear to be defending the other and they both essentially ignore all other players other than minor answers to the few questions directed at them.  I had started that D with discussion to everyone and a vote upon Rolepgeek.  D2 essentially starts here  This period of the game ends here, near the end of D2, covering a week of playtime and about 60 posts, around half of them from us three and discussing everything Scummy about each other as well as how the two of them defend each other - note I do not discuss this defense.  I don't want them to stop, I want to see how deep it goes.  Shortly before this time ends, Rolepgeek places his vote on Superblackcat:

AND NOW FOR THE IMPORTANT PART DUR DUR DURRR
Since it's a tie, I need to vote someone, to break it at the least. I'm not actually going to vote Imp, since I'm starting to think she has important things to make clear, and I want to give her a chance to cut stuff down so she isn't fucking with my eyes anymore. >.> So I'll vote Superblackcat, as they(genderwhutidunno) look to have been active-lurking for the last long while, without really contributing. Plus, you know, the whole ground that's already been trodden upon stuff with buddy-stabbing. :D

That 'Buddy-stabbing' issue, a concern discussed on D1 when I thought both Kleril and superblackcat were Scum and had tried to examine possible connections between them, had been solidly disproven early in the game, which may explain his emoticon use.

Immediately after that time period, Deathsword unvotes (had been voting me) and requests replacement.  Both of them return to inactivity for the rest of the D.  Deathsword never returns, he is replaced by Tiruin immediately before D2 ends.

Weird inactivity-related stuff helps cause Darvi, experienced player, inactive on our thread for two weeks but still active elsewhere in the forum, to be selected as the D2 lynch.  Darvi proves to be vanilla Town.

D3, Rolepgeek makes two posts returning to the attack upon me.  No scumhunting, in my opinion.  Just assault.  I have nothing further to say to him, and do not reply - the players I need to talk to are largely completely inactive.  Though all but you speaks at least once, none but rolepgeek place votes, there is almost no activity, this continues patterns from earlier play only worse, and it appears the game shall end.  I wait.  Then you enter the thread in the game's 11th hour.

The briefest summary of Rolepgeek's main Scumminess is listed below, though the list of minor supporting clues are so many they almost defies summary.  He's also been quite defensive of Deathsword, both in the start of play and extensively during D2, where they both defended each other in several of the posts each made during that time.  Deathsword defended no other player but himself.  Rolepgeek defended Lukinator (was replaced by Persus13), but -only- after Lukinator had left the game.  During the time Luke was actually in game (and if ever, needed protection?) Rolepgeek said nothing about his defense.  No idea what that means to Rolepgeek.  I would have asked him -then-, but I have learned most of what I know about play since.

Some of the biggies:  Lurky, unfulfilled promises, overall lack of scumhunting, apparent and claimed lack of focus on game.

But the thing is, I'm not 100% sure he is Scum.  Sure he's Scummy.  He seems the Scummiest to me, even accounting for how he has -worked- to be directly and personally aggressive towards me from early in the game.  But I also have deep concerns about Deathsword/Tiruin, and almost equally deep ones about Squill.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
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