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[zombie urist]

Persus13 has replaced Lukeinator.

[Persus13]

Unvote Lukinator's OMGUS and Extend (because I don't want to get insta-lynched right after joining a game)

So I've been following this game from the beginning, but not too closely, so at somepoint I'm going to need to reread everything.

Rolepgeek, I haven't heard much from you recently, and I was wondering what your opinion on everything post Behemoth is? Do you agree with Imp's assertion that Kleril and SBC are scum? Why haven't you posted in the last 36 hours even though Darvi's answered your question?

Imp: Now that Kleril seems to be attacking SBC do you think that they're trying to bus SBC or you were just incorrect about the two being scumbuddies?

[Teneb]

First, a heads-up: I will probably not post tuesdays and thurdays (due to having to spend exactly ten hours on the university, plus the time it takes to get there).

Darvi

Sword: who else are your suspicions and why?

I'll go on this below in this very post.

Keril

@Imp's behemoth attacking me:
Re: 1) Nothing I would have said about cat hadn't already been brought up by other players. It's not helping town any if my contributions are entirely redundant forms of entire redundancy.

Yet sometimes it's best to adress things already done so by others, for often people tend to not notice something.

2) This is faith I have placed in you, based on how you've been playing. I have no fact to back it up, but this is what I believe. If I had facts (i.e. if I was scum), things would be different, and this convincing would have been from post one, and not 5 or so pages in. Use your head.

Faith doesn't find scum. Questions do. Not questioning someone and then declaring them to be 100% town is wierd. Unless you know what everyone is. Scum do.

{I will repeat myself and say there is no such thing as 100% confirmed role if you are town in a BM. Or as any alignment in setups with third parties.}


SBC: I find your obsession with either no-lynching or random-lynching fascinating. Why do you not want to scumhunt and try to kill one of them on D1? Why would you rather leave it to inaction or chance?

Say... We NL tonight, and Squill dies, Cop investigates, say... Me or Luke, They either get a scum or no scum. Guess what? We got the same information, except we get one more night... Hmmm, He investigates, say, Imp or MrZero. WOAH more information. And he doesn't even need to out it. He can soft out it, and we will read back to see what he said. Such as, He could say, yknow, I think Luke seems more like town. And if he does die, we can assume that he investigated Luke. I feel like I just outlined what scum should be looking out for .

@Mods, Could you clarify how RoleBlockers work?

Who essentially kills? The Stalker, or the reg mafia? If RBer does Block, reg mafia, will someone still die because the stalker is alive?

You keep forgetting about scumhunting and finding scum through questioning and post analysis in the first day. Sure, town may be lynched, but then we'll have more information. How? We'll be able to read the lynchee's posts knowing they were town and thus learn more. Or scum may be lynched, which is good. And we can read the lynched scum's posts knowing they were scum and watch how they interacted with others. No lynching removes that possibility. Night is not the only thing in mafia.

{Roleblockers target someone during the night. If their target attempted to perform an action that same night, it'll fail. If the target does not/cannot perform an action (which is pretty much anything, including kills), nothing happens. It's up to the mod if the target knows they were blocked or not. The scum players decide which will perform the kill. If that player is blocked, then there is no kill (Mod/Darvi, correct me if I am wrong). A player cannot peform more than one action unless their role states otherwise. By stalker, I guess you mean role-cop.}

Superblackcat, you are far too unconcerned with the lynch and using it. Why would you not want to use the town's greatest asset?

Finally, SBC, Kleril and MrZero: Quote. Seriously. Or link. I often have to guess what you are referring to.

DS:Have you been lurking Deathsword? Have you been viewing this thread, and just not posting? If so, why aren't you posting?

I tend to take time when posting, even if the post tends to be rather small. A lot gets typed and then deleted. A lot is re-read several times. I often check on the thread, but do not have the time to post. For example, this post took about an hour and a half to complete.

[Superblackcat]

@Deathsword, I'm quite happy to lynch someone, but no one in this game has enough evidence against them. (thus far). I am currently voting my highest scum (that i see), and I do think I am scum hunting. However, other than MrZero setting of *ding* bells in my head, no one else seems to be scummy enough for me to agree on lynching them. Also, no one else see the ding, so I'm not sure if I'm just really biased against him.


Also, Would it be possible for you to check in, at least once a day, therefore letting us know whether you are here, and allowing you to respond. It's hard to play with inactivity, even if each post is of high quality.

@Persus: As of now, reading everything without being very involved in the game yet, who do you think is the most scummy, who do you think is the most town like? Who are you confused about? Bring light of a person not yet biased by the game.

[Superblackcat]

Also, Update on How many more vote for an extend?

[Mr.Zero]

Uff, busy days and forum at my post some time ago. Anyho, questions first.

IC's: So now that luke is gone, do we disregard any previous statements about him? Like Luke played dumb? Since the person that is playing now is probably nowhere near Luke behavior.

@Mr. Zero:

I suppose i could give out my top town which is Rolepgeek.

What's Rolepgeek done to take the spot of top town, for you? He seems to be overly hostile and uncooperative, in my eyes.

Overly hostile? So... Since when is aggressive scum hunting a bad thing?The only party that doesn't benefit from aggressive scum hunting is the scum team, no? At least he IS doing some progress in the hunting, while SBC is trying to deflect/defend/strike back and concentrates more on getting the next 2 days NL's than trying to find scum today ( In the sense of the first mafia day).

@MrZero: "Rolepgeek: Looks like town to me. He acts a bit passively but it doesn't match the shit SBC,Luke and Kleril's (Because of the points Imp has shown) have pulled off."


HOLY SHIT! That is just scum tell right there.

"SBC,Luke and Kleril's (Because of the points Imp has shown)"

The scum tell in there, actually two, is that first of all. You didn't question ANYTHING, Imp said. Are you telling me that you agree with every single point in that behemoth post? Or did you just skim the "VOTE KLERIL" part, and then decided to include his name?

Also, You proceed to say luke is just dumb? Why the contradiction? Why include Luke's name in the first place?

for this, you deserve a Vote (MrZero)

I... what? You ask me to reveal my top town picks/scum picks and THEN you vote me for revealing it? Like wtf. Did i even mention that some players didn't mention theirs? Is the heat coming trough to you?

You seem to understand Imp very well... Might you be getting clarifications, or just frankly status updates with eachother... in a certain thing called Scum chat?

You two seems to be working together. It wasn't very apparent in the previous posts, but because of that post, I've noticed you guys have basically agreed on everything.

Totally, and you?

@kleril: As of now, I believe we should vote MrZero. However, you forget something very important. Cops, and Roleblockers

Damn, the convincing is strong in here..... You really should try to do better. I also particularly like the way you ignored kleril for most the game and then suddenly buddy him.

"Hey friend, i'm getting shit over here/ Give me a hand. *wink wink* *nudge nudge*"


@Darvi, ffs. That's hypocracy, you mention behemoths and you create one yourself. I tried to fork that thing over into neat quotes but it's too much of a hassle as i have trouble spotting what is directed at me and isn't. I will gladly answer every question you have if you show a clear indication that the question is directed at me. Also cut that style, it's more of a pain to read than Imp's.


@Deathsword: No offense but i've used quotes in (nearly) every of my posts, if you aren't even bothered to click on the quote number of the quoted part then i cannot help you.

Extend for new guy.

Regarding this piece of text;

@MrZero: "Rolepgeek: Looks like town to me. He acts a bit passively but it doesn't match the shit SBC,Luke and Kleril's (Because of the points Imp has shown) have pulled off."

Dunno why i added luke to scummy while i mentioned him being stupid, mistake on my part. At that time i was amazed of the OMGUS vote and his name was flying trough my head.

[Persus13]

@SBC

@Darvi, You would be my current top town tell, because with that one post, it's gone through more than anyone else, except for maybe Imp. And frankly, I like your logic. Of course, I do think that you could be a wolf in sheeps clothing, and looking at that veteraness in those posts, I can see how easily you could probably pretend to be town. And how well you would do it.

Agreed, for me its hard to figure out if Darvi and Deathsword are town or not, especially since the use {IC voice} alot.

Also, my basis for MrZero's FOS came several pages back. I'm not sure I remember exactly why.

This makes you look a little scummy. If you aren't sure why, then trawl through and find why.

However, they were calling me out on "Not helping town". I did what I normally do in other games to scum hunt. Ask people to list top FoSes and Town Tells, I then continued to list my own.

Directly afterwards, I got blown off by MrZero. It seems that he doesn't want anyone to know who he suspects, or who he thinks is town. I think the two people he has mentioned is Imp (Town), Me (Scum).

The problem with your scum-hunting strategy is that it isn't aggressive scum-hunting, which this forum focuses on. You can't really get good reads on whether or not people are scum, or whether or not people are town (although that is less important), unless you start asking questions and pressuring. Asking people for who their opinions on who is scum, especially relatively early on Day 1, isn't really helpful or scum-hunting, and thus falls under active-lurking, which is a scum tell. For instance I don't really have a strong scum pick. A few people seem fairly scummy to me (Ex. Rolepgeek, and you), and I don't really care about who is town at the moment because the goal isn't who is town, its who is mafia. And i'm only sure about one person who isn't mafia.

However, after that post, I kinda felt a *ding* in my head, and I felt like pieces fit together. MrZero and Imp have highly different posting styles, and frankly, I would believe, personalities. However, they have managed to support each other on every point either of them have made, and not go against each other at all.

To some extent recently I've seen this too, but at least in the beginning of the game, these two didn't like each other. (Ex.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@Mr.Zero:
I hated your first post in this thread.  From sentence structure to what and how you were asking - and too, that your question to me as asked did not make much sense to me - I was expecting bad things of you.  Every post you've made I've liked more than that first one, and my respect of and comfort with you has grown steadily.  I'm still watching everything you do, and you look like you're scum hunting to me. I have no new questions for you now - but I do hope you still answer the one I asked most recently when the timing is convenient for you.

)

However, reading Imp's posts it seems she has referred to everyone as scum but Mr. Zero and Squill. I may be wrong about that so if someone wants to quote something showing I'm wrong, please do.

Right now, I believe that Scum is 2 out of MrZero, Imp, and kleril.

Even though Imp and to a lesser extant Mr. Zero are both targeting kleril you think 2 of the 3 are scum? Do you think one is trying to bus kleril to allay suspicions?

So, that means, I believe all the others are town.

Really. You are so certain on the first day it's one of the three above that your willing to ignore everyone else as town?

Could everyone list their genders please, This guessing game is too hard.

Male

ehhh... Rolepgeek... Has flown under my radar the whole time. Therefore, Rolepgeek, would you please list who you think is scummy? (2 min) and who you think is most town like (2 min).

Agreed

@Persus: As of now, reading everything without being very involved in the game yet, who do you think is the most scummy, who do you think is the most town like? Who are you confused about? Bring light of a person not yet biased by the game.

Please see my above response to your last post. However, right now I'm getting scummy feelings about Rolepgeek (mainly because of lurking, and being ignored by everyone), you, Kleril (because now he's attacking you as scum, but hasn't changed his vote of me) and maybe an Imp/Mr. Zero team. Squill I'm not so sure on. and I'm struggling not to trust Deathsword/Darvi because I tend to trust people, especially if they are the "mentor figure".  And as I said above, town picks aren't what I'm focused on because that's not the goal of the game. There isn't anything that can tell you if someone's town, but there are lots of scum tells.

Also, Update on How many more vote for an extend?

I believe we had one more needed, and that was provided by Zero.

@Deathsword

-snip-

Thanks for posting

Superblackcat, you are far too unconcerned with the lynch and using it. Why would you not want to use the town's greatest asset?

I assume your unvoting me if you are voting SBC?

Finally, SBC, Kleril and MrZero: Quote. Seriously. Or link. I often have to guess what you are referring to.

Yes please

@Mr. Zero

IC's: So now that luke is gone, do we disregard any previous statements about him? Like Luke played dumb? Since the person that is playing now is probably nowhere near Luke behavior.

I have a name you know. And I think Luke was just out of his depth and not quite ready for a Mafia game and was just trying to keep quiet and avoid the sharks, which didn't work. if our places were switched, I'd probably keep my judgement of Luke in mind, but avoid connecting what he said with his replacement.

@kleril: As of now, I believe we should vote MrZero. However, you forget something very important. Cops, and Roleblockers

Damn, the convincing is strong in here..... You really should try to do better. I also particularly like the way you ignored kleril for most the game and then suddenly buddy him.

"Hey friend, i'm getting shit over here/ Give me a hand. *wink wink* *nudge nudge*"
[/quote]
Wait, can you link to this, blatant case of buddying please? And if SBC is buddying Kleril, why do you think Kleril appears to be suddenly saying he thinks SBC is scum?

[Persus13]

Official takeback time:

@kleril: As of now, I believe we should vote MrZero. However, you forget something very important. Cops, and Roleblockers

Damn, the convincing is strong in here..... You really should try to do better. I also particularly like the way you ignored kleril for most the game and then suddenly buddy him.

"Hey friend, i'm getting shit over here/ Give me a hand. *wink wink* *nudge nudge*"

Wait, can you link to this, blatant case of buddying please? And if SBC is buddying Kleril, why do you think Kleril appears to be suddenly saying he thinks SBC is scum?
[/quote]
I just looked at this post in context, and it seems like a less blatant case of buddying to me. SBC's above quote was responding to the following  post by Kleril:

@SBC

Personally, because I think the chance of actually killing the mafia is quite small, I would prefer two NL's. However, if there was something drastic happen, in the next several of hours, a RL may be what we need.

While on paper, this seems to be the best approach, the game is meant to be played. Odds are that as town we can play cohesively enough to make a mafia member stumble and say something incriminating. I've played very few games of mafia where scum hasn't been voted off, or at least confirmed in the minds of the group, by the end of day one. It's rare that scum can play well enough during day one to keep on top of everyone setting the stage for the rest of the game.
On top of that, the most powerful use for a lynch is the ability to choose. Everyone's got at least a rough idea of who's suspicious, and eliminating one of them means that the next day becomes easier to choose correctly.
e.g. Losing you or Lukinator during the day is more beneficial than losing, say, Squill during the night, as now we have fewer scummy players to choose between.

So, do you still believe a NL is good for town? Have you ever? Or are you just pushing the idea forward to sway the game in favour of scum?

And after reading these two posts it's clearer that it isn't buddying, its just that SBC was using we to refer to the town as a whole in response to Kleril's question asking if SBC believed a NL was good for town. And then SBC goes on to explain that he thinks Kleril is wrong because of cops and roleblockers.
The problem I have with SBC's argument is he is focusing on a perfect town game. If the cop gets killed or worse, lynched, or the roleblocker blocks the cop by mistake, then SBC's plan goes wrong.

[Superblackcat]

Oh man, do I feel stupid. I thought this was a 7/2 game, and I just now, noticed this is a 9/2 game.

So now, let me clear things up. I only believe in the NL in a 7/2 game, as a 9/2 game, the chances of hitting a mafia is much higher, in a sense, because we get 2 days to lynch. Also, that means we can RL twice without much consequence.

Thus, I completely support Lynching today. Also, just saying, I don't think a 9/2 game is very balanced for the mafia.

@Persus
My FoS was originally based off of MrZero's first question. After I stated it, MrZero started attacking me, saying I was stating "redundant things"... MrZero just attacked kleril for not stating "redundant things".

I never voted MrZero until now, because there has been pile upon pile (Not really, more like 4-5) inconsistencies, some of them small, some of them across several pages, but they are there. Also, Imp, who has given everyone the "FOS" eye, did not turn her eye towards MrZero, something I find very suspicious. However, I like Imp more than I like MrZero...

Also, I would completely disagree with you about the town thing. If you can't find the two mafia, but instead, you know 4 are, frankly in your opinion, basically confirmed town. Then... Wala, You can narrow that mafia down to 3, or 2, or however many, depending how many are left in the game.

No, I do not believe the other are all comfirmed town, but yes, I do think most of them are town at least. The two that I am not sure of (DeathSword and Rolepgeek) I posted about below.

I'm quite wary of kleril, because of after Imp's attack on him, his response, was well... As bad as mine. Sadly, I can see why you guys voted me for some of my posts earlier.

Anyways, kleril immediately redirects attention to me, because Imp and MrZero included me inside the assessment. Seems very scummy.

Frankly, What I mean is that if Imp and MrZero aren't scum, I think kleril is, I do not think kleril is partner with either of them, and I could see him being a partner with rolepgeek, as kleril has basically ignored him, even though most other people has directly addressed him, looking for more activity. Right now, I get the feeling that rolepgeek is lurking, not inactive.

@MrZero, I didn't vote you for giving your foses, I voted you for, as you can see in my post, not questioning anything Imp said.

I can't vote someone for... Not doing what I ask, I can for pulling out several scumtells when answering what I asked.

I'm pretty sure you didn't even read through my whole post, because you just pulled out tiny parts of it, and decided that was my whole post.

Quote from: Superblackcat on October 04, 2013, 06:50:46 pm
You seem to understand Imp very well... Might you be getting clarifications, or just frankly status updates with eachother... in a certain thing called Scum chat?

You two seems to be working together. It wasn't very apparent in the previous posts, but because of that post, I've noticed you guys have basically agreed on everything.

Totally, and you?

What do you mean by that? Do you agree that you guys are in Scum chat, Do explain exactly what you mean by "Totally and you?"

Also, what are you looking for me to answer.

[Persus13]

@SBC

Thank you for your responses.

@Squill:
Haven't heard much from you. Who are you interested in scum hunting? Now that I've replaced Lukinator, you going to change anything you do?

@Kleril:
Several people have accused you of being scummy, but only one is actually voting you. What are your thoughts?

Also, do you realize you are in the scummy third vote on me (aka bandwagoning) and you appear to be deflecting Imp's attack by attacking SBC? And why haven't you changed your ote if you keep talking about how SBC is scummy and not changing your vote. Are you that determined to get rid of someone who was obviously out of their depth?

@Mr. Zero:
You said a while back you thought Rolepgeek was town. WHy?

@zombie_urist: Is there anyway we can track post count?

[Imp]

Hey all!  I type slower than I read - I am stealing moments from worktime to stay current but really don't have time to say much (Sunday I get current on posting, as previously promised), but want to respond with my answer to this:

@zombie_urist: Is there anyway we can track post count?

to give the fastest possible answer and a work around, because being better able to follow any player's posts seems VERY useful to me and I've already done so several times this game -

zombie previously made a way, currently seems broken, some comments in thread (one made by ZU, no time to find and link it if I'm also to finish what I want to say) support that it is broken.  Here's the broken tool -  http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~azhou/projects/LT/

That page has a link to another, earlier version made by someone else, here:

http://www.think0028.com/lurkertracker.html

And that one was working at the start of our play, and I liked using it but it has been broken too for the last several days.  I keep checking it every so often and hoping.

So, what I am doing since I can't find a better way, when I want to track posts from one of us, I click on player name to get to profile, then I find the posts link on left side of the page and open that, then scroll down their posts.  This is super easy for those of us who are primarily just posting in this thread right now - for everyone else, I copy and paste out just this game's posts to most easily consider them.

If anyone has a currently working easier method, I really want to know how to do it.

Hope this helps, throwing myself back into work with a shout of encouragement - I love the current activity level of the thread, I find a lot of useful information being asked and discussed by multiple players, and I am very much looking forward to tomorrow when I can give real time to interaction here without hurting the rest of my life.

[Squill]

@SBC

@Squill:
Haven't heard much from you. Who are you interested in scum hunting? Now that I've replaced Lukinator, you going to change anything you do?

@Persus13: Lukinator was just playing atrociously. I can't be satisfied just because he's gone.
What do you think of your predecessors actions? Why do you think he reacted so vehemently to anything said against him?

[Persus13]

@SBC

@Squill:
Haven't heard much from you. Who are you interested in scum hunting? Now that I've replaced Lukinator, you going to change anything you do?

@Persus13: Lukinator was just playing atrociously. I can't be satisfied just because he's gone.
What do you think of your predecessors actions? Why do you think he reacted so vehemently to anything said against him?

My opinion of Lukinator was, I believe I've said before, out of his depth. Bay12 mafia and real life mafia are two very different kettles of fish. Bay12 involves lots of questioning, pressuring, and is more psychological based than RL mafia. I think my predecessor's actions was bad playing by someone who didn't understand the rules, and his dropping out reinforced that. I viewed Luke as town even before I got my role PM.

Also, reacted so vehemently to what was said against him? His last post was the one where he voted you and he said it was because no one else had voted you, which set off the big attacks against him. And before that he was just answering people's questions. And even with the post where he voted you, it was a response to a question from Mr. Zero on why he hadn't voted yet. The only other post where he's defending or attacking was this:

As for Scum Imp seems pretty suspicious, lynching people for not having a lot of time on one night.

So I think vehemently reacting wasn't happening.

Right now, I'd rather scumhunt (except the two I'm focusing at the moment on haven't responded for a while) than defend Lukinator because defending a replaced player won't help town if I get lynched, but focusing on scumhunting will.

[zombie urist]

LT is fixed! I actually purposefully disabled LT a while ago for security reasons and now I un-disabled it. I think someone else on the server did something, but since everyone is using the same database it affected all accounts.

Lurker Tracker link for this game

[Persus13]

LT is fixed! I actually purposefully disabled LT a while ago for security reasons and now I un-disabled it. I think someone else on the server did something, but since everyone is using the same database it affected all accounts.

Lurker Tracker link for this game

Thanks, also I think Rolepgeek deserves a prod.

Unvote

Looked through RPgeek's posts and seemed pretty lurky, but I'm changing my vote to Kleril as he has seemed pretty scummy.

1. Deflection to SBC after the Behemoth was posted (here and claiming that because scum knows Kleril thinks SBC is scum, they'll change their plans, and blaming Imp for that. Also here: Attacking SBC for being a newb and asking Mods/IC for clarification on Roleblockers)

2. Jumped on the lynch Lukinator bandwagon (while this is understandable, I'm pretty confident at least one scum jumped on this bandwagon, which means Kleril, Deathsword, Squill, Darvi, or Imp is scum, and at the moment, Kleril and Deathsword look the most scummy out of the 5)

3. The whole faith in Imp not being scum is strange, plus has focused almost solely on Imp and to a lesser extant Lukinator, and has been mainly defending himself even before the Behemoth. His 8th post on.