@zombie urist and/or IC:Day 1 will end Tuesday, October 1st at 9 PM.
Day 1 will end in about 9 hours.
griffinpup has been prodded again.
Err, does that 'Day 1 will end in about 9 hours' belong in this post still? While I'm wondering about time, Day 1 ends at 9 PM in which timezone?
Is it even possible to replace our IC griffinpup, as there are no IC replacements waitlisted? What happens if it is not possible?
@Rolepgeek@Rolepgeek: If you would be a mafia member, would you try to NK one or more IC's regarding their higher experience?
Sorry for not posting. I got distracted again. Should have questions and such tomorrow.
@Rolepgeek
Strange sentence structure there. But the answer is no. ICs may be more experienced, but is is a learning game, and if the ICs are dead, they are less likely to talk, and give valuable information for later games.
Even if the IC's are dead, they should still be able to give advice. They don't magically vanish into thin air. So why do you trust them? Why aren't they potential targets considering the fact that they can be scum as well? Unless i misunderstood what you said.
Because you weren't talking about lynching. You were talking about if I was a mafia and night kills. Lynching's different.
Good point. I don't understand what you mean though, if you were Mafia, you would not NK one or both ICs because of their higher experience, because.... then they are less likely to talk and give valuable information for later games. Which later games? Are you talking about meta, and wanting to use what an IC may post here to help analyze that same person's play in an actual future Mafia game that may someday happen? Or are you trying to say that you wouldn't NK one or both ICs because their actual -play- here provides the newbie players with valuable information (experience) for the newbies' future games? ..... except that can't be what you meant, because a dead player, IC or not, doesn't talk in play at all.... in order to be "less likely to talk" if dead... you have to think that ICs which are currently living players will be more likely to use their IC voice than ICs who have been killed off as players.
That's a weird thing to think. Is that what you actually mean? If not, would you please clarify?
And you bring up a great point - you were not asked about lynching. I'm going to try and phrase this question as if Mr.Zero had asked it originally instead, because now I am really curious about your answer - Would you try to lynch one or more IC's regarding their higher experience?
@
Squill and Lukeinator:
@Imp: I am very interested in playing, but I still am not too confident in my skills at the game. Until I notice something that seems suspicious, I'm just going to try and avoid causing more confusion than is necessary.
@Imp
No, I just have no Idea what to ask.
I'd like to remind you guys, or just let you know period if it's the first time you've read it, that the original post of our game are these words:
Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.
Frequently Asked Questions
- Do I have to post so much? I can't be bothered.
Yes, you do. You have to be an active player to scumhunt effectively, and with a lurking playerbase you might as well just hand it to the scum. There is always something to say; even if someone said what you wanted to, say it anyways in your own words. Always ask questions, always observe.
This is a very demanding game. If you don't have enough time, then perhaps you should look elsewhere. - How do I even tell if someone's scum anyways?
This is, in fact, a difficult question. The game involves a lot of observation, and often it's more about intuition.
...real scumhunting, which is seeing people play and making observations from that
I am going to assume one or both of you is Town in what I say next: Please, please please please please be more active in posting to this thread. Do be BOLD! Do take risks and make mistakes and learn. If you wanted to just -read- a Mafia game, the forum is FILLED with other games you can read at any time. THIS is a game you can participate in. Who cares if it's your first ever Mafia game, or your second? It's mine first game too. You read what was asked of another returning Beginner Mafia player, and how he answered, right?
Rolepgeek: You played in the last BM, if I recall correctly. What do you think you learned there?
I learned to trust my gut... I feel like we lost because there was a lack of communication. So while it can be difficult to communicate, not being sure who the scum is/are, it is also paramount.
I believe him. Lets not lose like that. We are all, after all, here to -learn-. Lets learn. Lets do it. Lets try and if we fail, lets fail actively, trying our best and getting the most we can out of the chances and experiences we have in this game.
I am going to assume that you are both watching the thread, reading, and thinking - share at least some of those thoughts with the rest of your town! Maybe something confuses you - ask about it! Maybe you follow some interactions between people, but have no idea what to say to add to the interrogation - you can direct statements to someone, say what you think you observe happening in the interaction, and ask if that person agrees with your interpretation or believes they see something else going on. For that matter, you can even ask someone what their interpretation is of how two other players are interacting - or anything at all! Do
anything - confusing or not, outright wrong or not, it is better for your team than silently lurking. Sure, there's active lurking too... I don't mean to purposefully do that. But if you accidentally do that? If so, that's learning, a stage you had to go through, and then you're through it and you're a better, stronger, more able player.
But I beg you both.... do not lurk quietly. That looks so bad on the person doing it, and it hurts town, ESPECIALLY when a town player does it. As town, you won't choose to hurt town, right? Even if you were not town, you still would not choose to appear to hurt town, right? Even with both of you being town, with two townies lurking almost totally silently, the Scum can get away with more lurking, how can we possibly tell them from you? We simply can't, because you are part of what they must be measured against! And we need your help in winning this game - really, we do, and if you don't actively help us, you are passively helping the scum. Most games are won by the Scum, from what I've read. They don't need your help, but your fellow Town sure does.
Now I'm going to assume you're both scum, and here's what I have to say about that and your lurking: Thank you! You guys do whatever it is you want to do. We're going to get our Townie confusions settled in a day or two, and then we're going to hold a wake for our dead beside your lynched corpses.
@
Kleril: You felt like Town to me. As of your first post you did, and that hadn't changed until your most recent post. I -like- that you're suspicious of me, I do remain suspicious of you too even though you feel like Town. That's how it should be. I believe my feel of you comes from how you write more than anything else, possibly the specific questions you first asked. That's a weak thing to base a feel of Town on; none-the-less, it's there in my mind and I do trust my instincts, intuition, and subconscious - whether I know my reasons or not, I tend to trust me when I think or feel something.
The only thing about you that has, so far, changed your feel to me is the reason you give for having voted for me, the lack of response you have given those who have asked about your reasoning, and your possible drop in post number and length. Your actions and words in this area seem tangled and possessed of leaping logic, but that could be from some confusion about what words to call it or something. You may have a very good reason that makes a lot of sense, and I've just not been able to follow how you've said it - that is something to strain feelings of Town.
You called my vote on Deathsword "going along with the bandwagon" first, and maybe that was just a misuse of terminology. Other people, including the IC voice, disagreed with that choice of words
{One vote does not make a bandwagon. A bandwagon is a situation where a scum/lazy player votes someone just because everyone is doing that. I should note, however, that it is ok to agree with someone, but you may want to state your reasons to vote someone instead of some vague words (if any)}.
And, troublingly, you fail so far (it's been about 22 hours, and you have posted since) to answer either of these player's questions about it:
Which bandwagon? That was a pressure vote. You show up and say this one liner without any pressure behind it, why didn;t you pressure vote to get more information?
Now, tell me: if you are concerned, why are you not doing anything about it? Why just drop that one-liner and nothing else? That looks increasingly like lurking, which is of no benefit to the town.
I grant you - you respond to my question about your words -
Kleril: What bandwagon does my vote seem to be going along with?
You're coming after Deathsword after a pressure vote. Rule of thumb the person following that is scum. Imp has my vote.
What really matters isn't what you correctly or incorrectly call my actions, but catching the Scum, no matter who they are or what they feel like.
What you said, do I understand correctly? Person A (Deathsword) was the first person to vote in the thread. Person B (Imp) was the second person to vote in the thread, and placed their vote on person A. This is a scumtell - only Scum would vote second and vote against the person who voted first. Is this is a correct interpretation of what you said - I am understanding your reasoning right?This means you would have voted for -anyone- who voted second against the first person to vote in the thread? This also means that under no circumstances would you, as Town, -ever- vote second against the person who voted first in the thread?
Fascinating. Deep consideration of that 'logic', that claim of use of a 'rule of thumb' wipes clean my feel of you as Town. Of course, I might not be understanding you right - and if I'm not, that's no true feeling change. If I do understand you correctly though, it is hard for me to believe that yours is Town reasoning, no matter any level of inexperience which you may have. I beg you to help me understand your thinking and rationale on this issue.
As to my timing: I had a bad feel, a non-Town feel, from words and actions used by Deathsword. I followed that feel and discussed my concerns with him. As it happened, he did not satisfy those concerns, but increased them. I placed my vote upon him with the timing I did because of the progression of my and his interactions. His having voted by that point or not; anyone else's having voted by then or not had no part of my concern about him and had no effect on my decisions or timing. My vote against him could very easily have been the first vote in this thread, or the 8th.
I welcome and embrace your suspicion, and that of everyone else in the thread; most of us are Town and True, as the numbers and OP say we must be. Kleril, please answer your other questioners, and please answer the questions I have placed in this thread. I am deeply interested in your answers. I am also deeply interested in seeing you continue, and increase, your own use of questions and scumhunting. Other than a small handful of sentences, all directed at me, you've gone almost silent as of your third posting. If you are Town, as you have felt to me, we need your help desperately.
@
Mr.Zero:
I hated your first post in this thread. From sentence structure to what and how you were asking - and too, that your question to me as asked did not make much sense to me - I was expecting bad things of you. Every post you've made I've liked more than that first one, and my respect of and comfort with you has grown steadily. I'm still watching everything you do, and you look like you're scum hunting to me. I have no new questions for you now - but I do hope you still answer the one I asked most recently when the timing is convenient for you.
@
Deathsword:
I have no further words for you at this time, but oh do I watch you.
@
Superblackcat:
@Blackcat
I see no point, and I won't ask questions unless there is a specific need for me to, that ties in to the game.
I find this a highly suspicious statement. Because if you are town then you are supposed to ask questions to uncover scum, if you are however scum... then there's no need to. Why are you in this defensive stance, something to hide? Why haven't you asked A single question? Why did you say This?, Why haven't you answered Kleril's question?
...there is no penalty, as in losing the game, for the townies, if you lynch today, no matter what happens.
Interesting choice of pronoun there, bud. There something we should know?
@klerirl, It's just how I am used to refering to things...
Welp, Superblackcat, you answered one but only one of Mr.Zero's questions in the post of yours which I currently reply to. So I have to assume you saw his other three - they were all consecutive in the same paragraph, looks really hard to miss to me.
I half agree with your 'I have answered Kleril's question', you certainly did reply to it, but your reply's really not much of an answer. I really am interested in your answers, the same as I am everyone else's. All these suspcions to allay and all. Those are the questions I am refering to, right
here when Mr.Zero asked: "if you are town then you are supposed to ask questions to uncover scum, if you are however scum... then there's no need to. Why are you in this defensive stance, something to hide? Why haven't you asked A single question? Why did you say
This?, Why haven't you answered Kleril's question?"
I'd also like my questions to be more fully answered. For instance, though you answered parts of some these questions, you left some of them completely unanswered:
Talk us through how you think a group of players should handle day 1 then? Who would say what to whom and why? I understand that you don't think questions without reasons are the way to go, so what should happen instead? Do you think Mafia games should actually start with the night phase or something, so we all have a night kill to talk about, or what?
I understand from your answers here and here that you do either think that the game should start with night, or at least you are used to Mafia variants starting at night, and then you list details of how the first days should go - but you say 'the smart way to VOTE', which you also say "happens everytime", but you do not actually answer my questions.
I asked you "I understand that you don't think questions without reasons are the way to go, so what should happen instead?". Your answer sounds like you're saying town should vote no lynch (that's NL, right?) for the first two days, "today and tomorrow" as a way to "extend the time we get to talk and go through." Did you read any of the opening post? You do understand that after each round of voting, be that vote a person or no lynch, night happens and the Mafia kills a townsfolk, right? Considering your extremely quiet behavior here, and your stated strategy, you seem to be playing for Town to lose.
Additionally, yours is a very odd writing style, and a lot of what you say seems to at least partially contradict other of your words. For example:
I have never played mafia here before, and I am unfamiliar with the habits.
...
Also, I mostly play standard mafia setup with night start. I've played a lot of Epicmafia, and if any of you guys are familiar with how those games are run.... Well they are quite different from forum mafia. I have played forum mafia on another forum, Though it was not structured like this.
Frankly, however similar those 3 setups are, they are foreign to me.
It really sounds in this like you are telling us that you are unfamiliar with this style of Mafia, yet you also say things such as this...
I think that a NL for today and tomorrow will be better. That way, we extend the amount of time we get to talk and go through.
I believe that if a cop does find a mafia, that he should out -IMMEDIATELY- or at least soft tell it, with either votes/FOSes. There is no point in protecting yourself, at a certain point, if you are cop.
As it's a Day Start..... We get 1 RL (Random Lynch) This means there is no penalty, as in losing the game, for the townies, if you lynch today, no matter what happens.
So If we mislynch today, we will still get a day tomorrow, that is lylo. If we don't lynch to day (assuming no protect)/Jailkeep, We will get a Mylo Tomorrow, with 6/2
This makes it sound like you are stating strategies that you believe this group of players, including yourself, should follow. If you feel that this version of mafia in many ways large and small is different from what you know, that "you are unfamiliar" with things that are going on - what motivates you to offer group strategy for this game version which you are aware is significantly different from what you say you know? If the game is different from what you knew, why do you think the strategies you suggest from those games are best to use in this different game?
As far as I know about no-lynch voting on day 1... well, also in the original post.... which I suspect more and more you did not read much of...is a spoiler about that.
I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.
Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.
A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.
Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),
Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.
So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.
Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.
The most relevant part I'll directly quote here -
"A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all."So nope, I'm really not convinced that your suggestion is actually good for town. Granted, I don't know through personal experience. In regards to this -
Please fill me in on what you think should be done as of now. I would like to see strategies of someone who have played these setups before.
I am a true Mafia newbie; never played any form of it anywhere before this game. I am not "someone who [has] played these setups before"; but even as a newbie, quite a few of your statements seem scummy to me.
To sum up the scuzziness that I see from you: You tend to answer only fragments of the questions that others ask you, and typically these answers do not really answer the questions . You are taking very few actions which appear to be scum hunting or otherwise pro town. You make multiple conflicting statements, some of which support your being new to this type or form of Mafia and not knowing it well, others of which support your understanding the actions the entire playerbase should take - actions which, such as voting no-lynch, appear to be generally bad for town. Additionally you suggest a no-lynch vote as a way to "extend the amount of time we get to talk and go through" - which can, and has, and can again be achieved by requests to extend - without allowing the Mafia a free night kill as your "I think that a NL for today and tomorrow will be better" strategy would give.
Deathsword feels even more 'not-Town' to me than Superblackcat feels Scum, so I am not at this time changing my vote, but I am tremendously suspicious of Superblackcat.
Superblackcat, if you are Town I really hope you show it, loud, clear, strong, and soon.
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Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN! (Read 136443 times)