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[Nerjin]

@Birdy51

Nerjin - Glad to see you playing! What aspects draw you into Mafia?

The intrigue I suppose. There's also a lot of fun to be had being the one on the chopping block. If I had to pick I'd say: Most games let me simply power through obstacles. Mafia makes me thing them through.

@Tiruin

Nerjin

Alright, let's rock.

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

Starting with a general question, eh? How will you learn from the actions and responses? What if a player gives a subjective response?

[. . .]

Why did you not append a 'why' at the end of that query? Why do you ask in general instead of poking at specific people? Is voting pattern a plausible scumhunting theory to you?

General questions are something new I'm trying out. Not sure if they'll stick around. The reason I want to try them is that they create a specific scenario and each player's answer shows how they react compared to other players.

I'll be honest, I thought I did put why there... My bad. As for voting pattern: Not really. I feel like the reason behind the votes is more important than any pattern that could emerge.

@Imp

Nerjin:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

Nerjin, your own question back at you, what are your answers?  Also, how comfortable do you feel keeping track of this number of players?

Tiruin and Shakerag. Tiruin because she's a powerful player in my book and Shakerag for much the same reason. I'd also like NQT to be town because he's got that analytical mind going [even if sometimes, to me, it seems like he fail-towns too often (By which I mean he gets too ahead of himself and makes a newb-mistake in his eagerness)]. I also like Tiruin and NQT quite a bit and like to be on a team with semi-friends.

As for the most devastating scum: Tiruin for much the same reason as above. Her powerful play as town could just as easily be transfered to scum play.

How comfortable do I feel about there being this many players and my ability to keep track of them? Not at all.

@NQT

Nerjin

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devastating as scum?

What's your answer to the very same question?

I won't answer that question[/joke]

@Shakerag

Nerjin:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

[. . .]
How does asking this question to everyone lead to you getting leads on scum?

Already answered that. See my reply to Tiriun. As for giving me specific leads on certain players: It doesn't. Not really. BUT it does let me see their general play-style for the game and that'll help later on.
@TheWetSheep

Nerjin:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

Confirmed town: Hapah, Tiruin, Shakerag
Dangerous scum: Tiruin or Toaster

What have you learned from peoples replies? Were you surprised by anything?

I learned that Tiruin seems a popular choice. I wasn't surprised by anything in particular, no.

@Cheeetar

I realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.

How'sabout you humor us then? What are you looking for on Day 1 that'll convince that it's time to start getting heavily involved?

[notquitethere]

So Nerjin, what precisely have you learned from everyone's responses. You planning on following any of them up?

[Nerjin]

I've learned that you didn't read my whole post. As for following up, I don't think so. I am working on a second round of questions that should go to a few players.

[notquitethere]

What? I did read the whole post, you answered my prior question in your reply to Imp, that's fine. But if you didn't plan on following up your questions, why ask them?

[Nerjin]

Cause that particular question was just to get a lay of how people thought. Who they wanted on town and whom they were most afraid of. There's nothing to follow up on. I got information about their general state of mind. The second round of questions, which may have to wait a while, will be more follow...uppable? Um... You know what I mean.

[birdy51]

TolyK:

TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?

Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD


Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?

I suppose you are a bit similar to me in some respects then! In the recent past I have had issues with voting willy-nilly. Now I'm just trying to use it to highlight who I trust the least. Shenanigans are always fun though!

Now, as per your question. I tend to see myself as a person who busses aggressively when pressed. If Iqovian makes digs himself a pit, it's his job to get out of it. In a situation where I know that my partner just dug his own grave with a potentially disastrous claim, I have no issue with calling him out on it. If he's going to die, I may as well make myself look pretty.

However, I may also try to leave an out or a counter against me.  While I wear a combative face against them , I'm also just as likely to be plotting for some kind of method that they might save themselves with in the scum chat.

Imp:

Birdy:

Lurkers bother me, because I tend to be lurker on occasion myself. It's not something I usually mean to do. I simply get caught up in something or another and I have to take a break.

This makes me wary with dealing with them, mostly because I am largely sympathetic with their plight. Mafia can be very time consuming. Then, attacking a faceless target seems redundant to me. So, as to a strategy to dealing with them, I try to be accommodating. If they need an extension, I am normally willing to give it. If they absolutely will not post, let them either be replaced or have the Mod Kill them. At the end of the day, I would rather work with who is still in the game.

Will Mods usually replace or Mod Kill lurkers?  How long of a lurk is generally acceptable before either happens, assuming the lurker didn't ask for a replacement?

What is your stance, and what are your strategies, when dealing with active lurkers?

Mods mix in a bit of both, depending on how long the absence is. Given that we already had Griffinpup killed off by Webaddict, I would assume that he leans more towards killing them if a player simply disappears, especially in a role heavy set-up like this one.

However, I don't really know when a it becomes critical to lynch a lurker, or when it simply becomes too long of an absence. As I stated, I really don't like having much to do with lurkers. I see them as an unpleasant reality about forum mafia; sometimes you just can't find the time to post or you don't have the will to. However, if you demand that I quantify, I say 48 days. If after two days you have posted absolutely nothing substantial, then that is cause for concern. You had best have a good excuse if you are away for that long.

Active lurking is a similar occurrence. Critical playing is necessary, otherwise gameplay will collapse. Thus players who post day after day merely to keep up appearances need to be treated with a watchful eye. Are they active lurking because they are making a conscious effort to lurk, or are they going for a particularly turbulent period of their life? Those are the questions I have to ask myself when examining a lurking player. If they fail to justify their lurking, then it is proper to pressure and/or lynch them.

[TolyK]

TolyK:

TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?

Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD


Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?

I suppose you are a bit similar to me in some respects then! In the recent past I have had issues with voting willy-nilly. Now I'm just trying to use it to highlight who I trust the least. Shenanigans are always fun though!

Now, as per your question. I tend to see myself as a person who busses aggressively when pressed. If Iqovian makes digs himself a pit, it's his job to get out of it. In a situation where I know that my partner just dug his own grave with a potentially disastrous claim, I have no issue with calling him out on it. If he's going to die, I may as well make myself look pretty.

However, I may also try to leave an out or a counter against me.  While I wear a combative face against them , I'm also just as likely to be plotting for some kind of method that they might save themselves with in the scum chat.

You seem to be in the impression that I meant a single claim.  I'll wait for the third response.

[Toaster]

Sheep:

Toaster:

How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?

Not too valid, particularly this case, which is mild. Like I said, that vote on Birdy wasn't so much suspicion about his rolefishing as wanting an alternative to randomvoting.

Fair enough.


Birdy:

Toaster:

Birdy:  Do you think OMGUS is a valid tell?

It's hard to say. Traditionally, OMGUS is a tell, but nowadays it's very much a meta-tell. People know so much about it, that they could honestly be standing on either side of the scum/townie spectrum and get away with it. 

For instance, I accept that I am committing OMGUS on TheWetSheep because his question and his vote just doesn't feel right. If he isn't going to be around much due to being busy, why would he go through the process of throwing a vote onto me? It feels mechanical and it makes me wary. So this a scumtell? That is for you all to decide.

To turn the tables though, I noticed you asked a similar question to TheWetSheep, regarding his suspicions against me. Why is that?

Fair enough.  I pretty much think it's worthless and can be used as a bad excuse to vote someone.  (You OMGUSED him so time to vote you!)

You are correct- I did.  It lets me see how serious your votes are.  Plus, if it provokes a more severe reaction, that's more data to process.  No, nothing of note came from either of you.

To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.

Don't take everything you read there literally.  That, in particular, is bad advice.


Imp:

Toaster:

@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?

Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read.  NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work.  For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.

Explain what you mean by NQT being a solid playmaker?

NQT is willing to do deep analysis of the game.  If said analysis can be trusted to be genuine, it's an asset.  He takes things seriously enough to "coach" the rest of the game.

Shakerag:  Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do?  (You don't have to actually answer that.)

This seems to be a bit of an unusual question.  Would you explain why you asked with that disclaimer, was it intended to warn the rest of us or did you have another purpose?

It's more of a joke question.  Let me reference some past BYORs:

Spoiler: BYOR 8 (click to show/hide)

Shakerag - The Winner of BYOR 8
(Auto) Winner: While someone else on your team is alive, you cannot die or change roles.
(Auto) Smart Alec: You have 0 votes. You cannot gain any votes.
(1-Shot, Night) King Me [target]: Target player becomes King during the next Day Phase. If he is alive, only he may vote.

Spoiler: BYOR 9 (click to show/hide)

Shakerag - The permanently unkillable, permanently unlynchable, resurrecting, all-powerful, and all-knowing winner of BYOR 9

Alignment: Mafia
(Auto) Paradox Unkillable: If you are killed, you kill your killer.
(Auto) Paradox Unlynchable: If you would have the most votes or are tied for the most at the end of the Day, your vote is worth two.
(Night) Paradox Knowledge [target]: The target shows up as your choice of alignment. You may self-target with this action.

Spoiler: BYOR 10 (click to show/hide)

Shakerag - The Player Who Secretly Turns BYOR 10 into a Bastard Game of Mafia from a Normal Game of Mafia

Alignment: Outsider
Wincon: You must at least break even.

(Auto) Secret Bastard: BYOR 10 is now a bastard game. For you. Pretty secretive, eh?
(Auto) Credit Card: You are currently carrying one. You can only spend in increments of $100. You have a max limit of $3000.
(Auto) Debt: You start with -$1000.
(Auto) Overnight Stay: Every Night you haven’t broken even costs you $300.
(Auto) Death is Cheap: Dying costs you $500.

Spoiler: BYOR 11 (click to show/hide)

Shakerag - The BYOR 11 role that will make everyone wonder what in the hell webadict was thinking when he created it

Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead. (Mafia, Cult, SK, Lyncher, Assassin and respective Allies and Brothers)

(Auto) What The Hell: None of your abilities have names. If you wish to action, one will be chosen at random.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Public Debate Forum. Players publicly choose a representative who then chooses whom to lynch.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Election. Town players privately vote for their president who then chooses whom to lynch.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Kingmaker. You become the Kingmaker who chooses the King who then chooses whom to lynch. When the Kingmaker dies, a random Town player becomes Kingmaker.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Normal. Players vote for whom they wish to lynch.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Duel. Players vote for whom they wish to duel. The two or more highest voted players duel. One player is chosen at random to win the duel.
(Night) : The voting system for the game becomes Liar’s Dice. Players are given two 4-sided die. Players bid publicly on the total number of dice held by all players. A player that challenges correctly lynches the previous player. A player that challenges incorrectly is lynched. A player that correctly calls a dead-on call lynches the player of their choice.

See what I mean?


TolyK:

First thoughts: Why Do People Think I'm Good At This Game?!

Twitter Mafia.



Out of time to finish this post.


(Note to Toaster:  Start at #144)

[TheWetSheep]

Birdy:

Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.

How was it rolefishing?
-If he answered "No" it would make him less of a NK target because he's likely to have a more boring role
-If he gave more information than a "yes or "no" it could reveal something else about his role.

Basically asking anything about anybody's role could be considered rolefishing. But that's not all that important to me, since it wasn't all that suspicious. I voted you for a reaction, and you jumped pretty high and dodged the question.

Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.

So any attack on you when you're town merits an OMGUS-y vote because you know that you had innocent intentions?

TolyK:

TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?

Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD

Are you using this answer to cover yourself if people start accusing you?

NQT:

Sheep

NQT:

Sheep— how would you play the game if you were a Survivor?

I would try as hard as possible to be mediocre and not stand out.

So I can understand from this that if you play mediocre and don't stand out in this game then you're implicitly claiming survivor? Or is that how you play scum as well?

Not necessarily, since it could just be that I'm a mediocre player. And I don't know how I play survivor or scum, since I've only ever been town.

[Cheeetar]

@Cheeetar

I realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.

How'sabout you humor us then? What are you looking for on Day 1 that'll convince that it's time to start getting heavily involved?

There are a wide number of things I might twig at. I suppose I'll know it when I see it!

For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.

Tiruin, people have fairly high hopes for you this game, but you've yet to make a second post after your first. Do you have any thoughts on the answers to the questions you've asked?

[The_Iqovian]

The_Iqovian:

The_Iqovian:  Ignoring the lurker versions, which role(s) have you least enjoyed playing against?

I once played with a ventriloquist in the game. Really, really annoying.

With what you know of forum Mafia, could someone use a ventriloquist's role powers in this style of the game?  If so, would you explain how those would work?

If not, would you answer the question again considering only roles that you believe could be played in a forum-based Mafia game?

Well with a ventriloquist in forum mafia, it might work as an ability, maybe something like
(?-Use/Day) Ventriloquist's Doll [target]: Speak through the target. Target must copy you directly and cannot recant for [arbitrary time period].
I'm sure I've left that wide open for exploits, but you get the gist. If someone who knew how to balance a game worked on it, I'm sure something vaguely tolerable could work.

Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?

Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.

The Iqovian

Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.

So your way of forming reads in the face of low-content is to... sit back and answer the handful of questions people pose?

At this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.

Iqovian: Do you trust common methods, or do you prefer to be innovative and unconventional in your scumhunting?

If the method is tried and true, the scum have tried it and likely know counters. I try and be innovative, but people usually misinterpret that as acting scummy and I get lynched. Of course they interpret most things I do as scummy, so there's not much change there.

[Hapah]

15 hour day, post tomorrow.

[Tiruin]

15 hour day, post tomorrow.

^
Except the busy-ness was for 2 days unannounced because RL stuff >_<
I'm better now and will post in a few. ~3 Hours, at worst.

[notquitethere]

Sheep

Not necessarily, since it could just be that I'm a mediocre player. And I don't know how I play survivor or scum, since I've only ever been town.

Covering all bases, huh? Let's entertain a little thought experiment here: how do you think you'd play if you were playing scum?

The Iqovian

At this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.

You seem very concerned with not making a slip. Why so cautious? Also, tell me about Cheetar's supposed rolefishing.

[Imp]

Toaster:

Shakerag:  Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do?  (You don't have to actually answer that.)

This seems to be a bit of an unusual question.  Would you explain why you asked with that disclaimer, was it intended to warn the rest of us or did you have another purpose?

It's more of a joke question.  Let me reference some past BYORs:
...
See what I mean?

Yes.  Thank you, I do feel warned.
Birdy:

To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.

I got curious and tried to search that up, I couldn't find it either through Mafia Scum wiki's search or Google.  Thought I found a reference to it with a Google of "lynching towniest player lylo", but that was actually a game thread for a "Weird Voting Mafia", and yeah, it had weird voting.

Checked it because Google quoted "So even if they weren't the towniest player during the day, the fact that the .... you want to see lynched), the towniest at the top (the person you want to have...", that quote seemed pretty garbled but I thought it might relate to what you found; nope, they had a crazy vote system and were trying to teach each other (even at lylo!) how to avoid accidentally lynching people that were seen as Town picks (the voting system required every player to vote for every player, order mattered).  Glad that's not our game.

I did want to find the page you were talking about if I could, it sounds interesting, but even more I'd like to know how you'd use it.  What advantage do you see in "flashing that particular page heroically" if you could?

What do you think of that voting strategy as you described it?  Have you used it in play or do you plan to try it, at lylo or at any other point in play?

Birdy:

Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?

I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?

To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?

Mostly the latter, actually. I prefer pressuring people on valid points to randomly voting and asking hypotheticals. Why am I suspicious for voting you on a scumtell instead of random-voting?

Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote.

How serious do you perceive TheWetSheep's 'case' against you?  How serious do you perceive his vote to be?
Nerjin:

So Nerjin, what precisely have you learned from everyone's responses. You planning on following any of them up?

I've learned that you didn't read my whole post.

What? I did read the whole post, you answered my prior question in your reply to Imp, that's fine.

notquitethere assumes that you meant 'You didn't see my answer to your question' when you say "I've learned that you didn't read my whole post.".  Is that what you meant?

What is more important to you:  'To play in a way that satisfies you, regardless of if it satisfies your wincon', or 'To play in a way that satisfies your wincon, regardless of if it satisfies you'?

If you recieved a wincon you found disinteresting or distasteful, do you think you'd ignore it and just play the game towards some other goal that did motivate you?
notquitethere:

How do you intend to distinguish when a player who cannot (or will not) follow up on their questions is currently aligned as Town or Scum?  Do you see such players becoming something of a policy lynch for you?
Cheeetar:

I wouldn't be able to link you to a specific play, no- I'd probably have trouble linking you to an aggressive play that helped town win as well, without going back and reading through games I've played. I'd say, yes, reactive play does help avoid lynching the wrong people. The good guys tend to be reactive- police wait for people to commit crimes before arresting them, and so on. Aggressively questioning people can make them implicate themselves, but so can analysing the posts they make, and even townies can say stupid things that seems suspicious if they feel under pressure.

Have you had much trouble in games, with a more 'reactive' style of play being taken as a more 'passive' one, and thus being seen as Scummy?  If this was to happen in the future, how would you prefer to resolve the concern?
The_Iqovian:

Well with a ventriloquist in forum mafia, it might work as an ability, maybe something like
(?-Use/Day) Ventriloquist's Doll [target]: Speak through the target. Target must copy you directly and cannot recant for [arbitrary time period].
I'm sure I've left that wide open for exploits, but you get the gist. If someone who knew how to balance a game worked on it, I'm sure something vaguely tolerable could work.

Aha!  That works well for me, thanks.

Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.

Assuming I wasn't vital for our wincon, what would you do differently if you felt the claim was Birdy's fault?  What would you do differently if you felt that it was your fault?
TheWetSheep:

When you find Scummy play, how concerned are you usually with trying to distinguish Scummy from Scum?