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Fivex's

4 (50%)

Before OOS

4 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 8

[Azthor]

I could be granted a monopoly on Genoa for the rest of the game, which I will not be granted and will not ask for, as it is not France's right, and the node might still not cover the reduced monetary terms I proposed earlier. So, for peace terms based solely on trade around Genoa, that would be an unacceptable conclusion to this war.

[Tarran]

...Wat, since when did someone mention a monopoly on Genoa?

[DreXav]

So... uh, have we decided on what peace to accept yet or not? We're kinda running out of time to discuss this.

It is unlikely we will reach a peace agreement considering French stance.

I could be granted a monopoly on Genoa for the rest of the game, which I will not be granted and will not ask for, as it is not France's right, and the node might still not cover the reduced monetary terms I proposed earlier. So, for peace terms based solely on trade around Genoa, that would be an unacceptable conclusion to this war.

Watch him asking for things that belong more to his most trusted ally, Italy. Greed knows no end. This entire war was and is all about French far-fetched interest.

The war rages on.

[Tarran]

DreXav, you... you did read Azthor's post rite?

...and will not ask for, as it is not France's right...

He kinda didn't ask for it.

[DreXav]

DreXav, you... you did read Azthor's post rite?

...and will not ask for, as it is not France's right...

He kinda didn't ask for it.

I did read his post and it's contradictory - he suddenly speaks about something no one else has mentioned before, something that he has no right asking for, yet he mentions and considers it under angle of peace recompensation. If he truly wouldn't ask for it, he wouldn't mention it at all. But he did, making his "I asked but will not ask" speech figures completely pointless, only revealing his objectives.

[Tarran]

Alternatively, he could have been PMed by someone and wanted to announce it publicly that he doesn't consider it fair, maybe he was just confused or had a moment of bad judgement and posted something he was brainstorming and didn't think it through, or maybe he just wanted to say that he does not want it before anyone offers him. You didn't even wait for him to respond before accusing him of betraying his ally who he has shown frequent interest in beefing up in the past. He did leave Savoy alive for several sessions, even when I was arguably taking my time annexing them, and even when he had thousands of chances to take it for himself with very few people likely to stop him.

Really, it looks like you're grasping at straws to try and divide me from Azthor or paint him as a bad guy. I'm not buying it.

[DreXav]

Look at yourself, coming up with all possible excuses to apologize for your partner's... what will we call it? Slip of bad judgement?
I am not trying to divide you, it's completely pointless. Especially since you believe it's been completely selfless act on his part to assist you, whereas you are byproduct of him simply wanting to screw up one of many nations in the line - Austria. After that, you were grown to be his ally and Ottoman buffer zone, because France alone couldn't stand against potential coalitions. He's fond of the word 'foil', so you were his foil for Austria, then Ottomans. The Mamluks are, by his very own words, a foil for Russia (revealed during Mamlukian push into North Africa), then Ottomans (revealed when he jumped into current war) and as this war has revealed, also Spain. All foils, to further his own agenda.

But again, it's irrelevant. What matters to me is how he reveals his objectives which all are tainted by strong greed and megalomania.

[fivex]

The Mamluks are, by his very own words, a foil for... Ottomans (revealed when he jumped into current war)

What?

[DreXav]

Feigned or genuine surprise, I wonder? Doesn't matter until after the war, then everything will be clear.

[fivex]

If Azthor thinks he can play me against Chosrau, he's wrong.

[Azthor]

The mention of Genoa's trade node was in reference to "the opening of trade around Africa". I was under the impression of which that spoke of the Mediterranean nodes north of Africa; one can see why I'd reach that conclusion. Thank you for the benefit of doubt, Tarran.

DreXav:
1. Urist became a non-factor after the second session. I fail to see how how, were I not genuinely fostering Italy's growth, I'd ever have willingly broke that PU.
2. Earlier in the game, I stated that warring the Sunni served me no interest, as they were the only deterrent to Russian eastward expansion, that is entirely true.
3. When you approached me with allegations of "stopping the Sunni alliance before it becomes too powerful", I disregarded you.
4. While, with the eastern expansion in mind, I was not willing to let either Muscowy or the Ottomans make further gains into Europe, never did I state the Mamluks were a foil to the later. If those were my intentions, why did I not ally you over Fivex, as you'd clearly be the better choice for an offensive move against Chosrau? Unless you seek to imply I am too mentally handicapped to have noticed that.

With the above in view, I propose a few questions be reflected upon: which party here is desperate to sow dissent among us, which party is directly interested in openly and offensively opposing the Sunni nations, which party clings to Italian territories, when Italy is a player nation, even now?

[DreXav]

The mention of Genoa's trade node was in reference to "the opening of trade around Africa". I was under the impression of which that spoke of the Mediterranean nodes north of Africa; one can see why I'd reach that conclusion. Thank you for the benefit of doubt, Tarran.

DreXav:
1. Urist became a non-factor after the second session. I fail to see how how, were I not genuinely fostering Italy's growth, I'd ever have willingly broke that PU.
2. Earlier in the game, I stated that warring the Sunni served me no interest, as they were the only deterrent to Russian eastward expansion, that is entirely true.
3. When you approached me with allegations of "stopping the Sunni alliance before it becomes too powerful", I disregarded you.
4. While, with the eastern expansion in mind, I was not willing to let either Muscowy or the Ottomans make further gains into Europe, never did I state the Mamluks were a foil to the later. If those were my intentions, why did I not ally you over Fivex, as you'd clearly be the better choice for an offensive move against Chosrau? Unless you seek to imply I am too mentally handicapped to have noticed that.

With the above in view, I propose a few questions be reflected upon: which party here is desperate to sow dissent among us, which party is directly interested in openly and offensively opposing the Sunni nations, which party clings to Italian territories, when Italy is a player nation, even now?

Genoa is not a part of the "trade route around Africa" for Iberia. Your mention was completely out of blue and out of your own greedy interest.
Italy can't effectively grow if it can't eat provinces on it's own. Your PU example is a really weak argument, all the more as you didn't need tight leash after Austria died off.
You are also saying you have never told me in whisper that you are using the Mamluks as Ottoman foil? ; ]

To answer your few trite questions:
I have already noted that attempts to sow dissent among you are pointless, I only speak my mind about your duplicity at this point.
You are obviously interested in the opposition of the Ottomans, whereas Mamluks serve toward your agenda. As Spain, I have no beef with Ottomans, and conflict with Mamluks is only because of their insistent hostility. We are reversed in our rivalries.
I have inherited the islands near Italy along with the rest of Spain, which in turn inherited it from Aragorn - at no point were those Italian territories. What's more, prior to the war I have clearly communicated to Tarran that I am perfectly willing to part with them. I even gave away one for free to England. Calling it "clinging" is seriously stretching it.

I hope you do not expect any gains from this war.

[Twiggie]

Ah, the old 'I don't want people moving into Europe' line.

Some people might think you want it all for yourself...

[Tarran]

Italy can't effectively grow if it can't eat provinces on it's own. Your PU example is a really weak argument...

The PU was entirely by accident, most likely more a fault of mine. I intentionally kept it for the good king Azthor had when my kings would likely be trash (and based on what Cho said they are!). He in no way blocked my own expansion with the PU. Indeed, he offered the chance to break the PU often.

What's more, prior to the war I have clearly communicated to Tarran that I am perfectly willing to part with them. I even gave away one for free to England.

If you did, I was either left out or you made the point very lightly because I don't remember you ever seriously offering them to me... which is why I was somewhat upset that England gained Corsica.

I hope you do not expect any gains from this war.

I honestly don't expect you to even try to peace out at all anymore, which will either force Twiggie to intervene as the GM or result in some other rather unfavorable and stupid result.

Ah, the old 'I don't want people moving into Europe' line.

Some people might think you want it all for yourself...

With a monopoly on the New World by Andrew and DreXav, and a contested Africa, can you blame him?

[Twiggie]

With a monopoly on the New World by Andrew and DreXav, and a contested Africa, can you blame him?

Expansion is one thing. Being duplicitous is another entirely.