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[IronyOwl]

((And why should they? It doesn't get them any Belief, doesn't let them make a notable mark on the world, and no one god can make a fully functioning ecosystem; there's too many parts. The tragedy of the commons, compounded with practical issues, has made sure that no one cares.

If I were you, I'd have minor things like bugs, rodents, little fish, shrubs, mundane trees, etc, be part of each Region as appropriate.))

((Yes it does, yes it does, and yes they can; it'd take, what, four successful actions?

I built the Belief system with precisely this issue in mind, amongst others.))

[hops]

((I am kind of also baffled that none of the pro-life gods managed to create an ecosystem yet. Then again their dice rolls are pretty crappy.))

[Tsuchigumo550]

((Bodark is going to ecosystem you and you're all going to LIKE it.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((And why should they? It doesn't get them any Belief, doesn't let them make a notable mark on the world, and no one god can make a fully functioning ecosystem; there's too many parts. The tragedy of the commons, compounded with practical issues, has made sure that no one cares.

If I were you, I'd have minor things like bugs, rodents, little fish, shrubs, mundane trees, etc, be part of each Region as appropriate.))

((Yes it does, yes it does, and yes they can; it'd take, what, four successful actions?

I built the Belief system with precisely this issue in mind, amongst others.))

((What four things are you thinking of that would create a whole ecosystem, and how many of them generate Belief?))

[Tsuchigumo550]

(( Right now it's just sort of a plant. Then I plan to create a small animal that's easily hunted, a larger one that eats them that's less easy to hunt, and then a sun for belief.))

[Tiruin]

((Given the number of things that don't exist unless explicitly created, I'd say the ecosystem is doomed.))

((Which is to say the ecosystem is doomed unless people actually create it, which most of them aren't interested in.))

((And why should they? It doesn't get them any Belief, doesn't let them make a notable mark on the world, and no one god can make a fully functioning ecosystem; there's too many parts. The tragedy of the commons, compounded with practical issues, has made sure that no one cares.

If I were you, I'd have minor things like bugs, rodents, little fish, shrubs, mundane trees, etc, be part of each Region as appropriate.))

((Yeah, you know what? You're basing too much on that belief thing.

I personally do not care if there's any benefit from belief or not. This is a possibility to create a world. Fresh. Without any repercussions made or gained. We have total free will.

Oh, and ecosystems. Implies the use of knowledge. How to make things work.

Please don't complain about it.))

Edit: Stressed >_<

[GreatWyrmGold]

((The biggest problem is that you need Belief to do much of anything.

Really, my question is simple: Why not have regions come prepackaged with the microbes, plants, assorted small arthropods, rodents, etc, that they need to survive? If we need to make each organism separately, you don't make the Forest of Wood--you make the Rocky Barren Plain that Might Become the Forest of Wood if I Don't Run Out Of Belief or Lose My Divine Spot First.))

[Digital Hellhound]

((Plenty of regions have been created with described basic life, but (I think) dice rolls have generally ruined those.))

[Tiruin]

((Welp. I can't get more descriptive than this.))

And then she was alone.

Create Mundane, edible and nutritious Fauna @ Whispering Forest. If possible, add in bacteria. The non-pathogenic kind.

The other gods, as well as that strange creature were working their own makes. Bodark was, at least, interested in the same goal Eleri had. The world was distinct; the number of sapients, flora and fauna could be easily ticked off a list in a spreadsheet.

There needed to be biodiversity. But how would this be accomplished...

((I believe Irony would squee at the possibilities.  ))

[IronyOwl]

((What four things are you thinking of that would create a whole ecosystem, and how many of them generate Belief?))

((Grass, deer, wolves, worms. Not necessarily a good ecosystem, but presumably self-sustaining, no?

Admittedly, only two of those would generate belief, and even then only if they suited you well. The fact remains, it'd be entirely possible and far from crippling.))

((The biggest problem is that you need Belief to do much of anything.

Really, my question is simple: Why not have regions come prepackaged with the microbes, plants, assorted small arthropods, rodents, etc, that they need to survive? If we need to make each organism separately, you don't make the Forest of Wood--you make the Rocky Barren Plain that Might Become the Forest of Wood if I Don't Run Out Of Belief or Lose My Divine Spot First.))

((Because that's boring. Making everything that isn't a humanoid or someone's special poison bird some sort of generic, nondescript tree or assumed carnivore food source doesn't result in a very interesting or immersive world, and it opens up issues with what exactly is out there. Can poison frogs be assumed in a rainforest? Bison on plains? Lions on savannas? Messenger-worthy birds in forests?

If the whole focus of the game was on making mythical beasts and leading your human empires against each other, I could see handwaving everything that wasn't magical or wearing armor. Since the focus is to create an entire world, and indeed, possibly more than one world, it doesn't make any sense to just shrug off massive portions of it just because everyone wants to go for the juicy stuff first.))

((Plenty of regions have been created with described basic life, but (I think) dice rolls have generally ruined those.))

Regions do not come with life or advanced weather conditions, though they do include general geography and basic climate (hot, cold, good soil for trees, etc).

((No, that's been the fact that describing them with basic life doesn't make it possible.))

((Welp. I can't get more descriptive than this.))

((I believe Irony would squee at the possibilities.  ))

((Vagueness makes me deranged and sadistic. I'm thinking about being nice and creative, but I'm also thinking about making them absolutely horrifying in one way or another. :3))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((What four things are you thinking of that would create a whole ecosystem, and how many of them generate Belief?))

((Grass, deer, wolves, worms. Not necessarily a good ecosystem, but presumably self-sustaining, no?

((Not really. To pick the most obvious issue, a lack of decomposers. Worms can only do so much, unless we assume that by "worms" you mean "all the worm species that could be needed" rather than "all species of worms needed to fill the roles of breaking down organisms".))

((Because that's boring. Making everything that isn't a humanoid or someone's special poison bird some sort of generic, nondescript tree or assumed carnivore food source doesn't result in a very interesting or immersive world, and it opens up issues with what exactly is out there. Can poison frogs be assumed in a rainforest? Bison on plains? Lions on savannas? Messenger-worthy birds in forests?

((Notice that I didn't request any animals larger than a rat. So, that would disallow bison and lions. As for poison dart frogs and "messenger-worthy" birds (seeing that just about any bird could do with a short enough distance and a small enough message), why not?))

If the whole focus of the game was on making mythical beasts and leading your human empires against each other, I could see handwaving everything that wasn't magical or wearing armor. Since the focus is to create an entire world, and indeed, possibly more than one world, it doesn't make any sense to just shrug off massive portions of it just because everyone wants to go for the juicy stuff first.))

((Rats are massive? Guppies are massive? Fungi are massive? Bugs are massive? Grass is massive? Bacteria are massive? All I'm basically asking that all be basic stuff needed to make regions work be assumed to exist and not require time, power, and effort to exist, because it's kinda silly to make a "forest" or "grassland" region if you need to make the trees, grass, and all the organisms needed to let them survive separately from the region itself.))


((Really, what's so interesting about making rats, bacteria, and plants just so the world can actually survive? You want to know another reason no one's making these vital aspects of the ecosystem? They've only got a limited time in-game, and want to make something interesting. These little basic building blocks needed for a functioning ecosystem eat into the players' limited resources and don't benefit them.))

[Tiruin]

((Welp. I can't get more descriptive than this.))

((I believe Irony would squee at the possibilities.  ))

((Vagueness makes me deranged and sadistic. I'm thinking about being nice and creative, but I'm also thinking about making them absolutely horrifying in one way or another. :3))

((My first idea was to create a Feature of the whole world to be able to bear life-bearing organisms. Meaning bacteria--which will then take care of everything else!

...But I wanted to be specific.))

@GWG: ((One word: Microorganisms.))

[Tsuchigumo550]

words and things

I believe that's why some of us are more concrete, so that we can actually worry about getting shit set up for the rest of you.

Cue bodark waving an unseen fist and shouting something about kids on his lawn.

[GreatWyrmGold]

@GWG: ((One word: Microorganisms.))

((One word: Huh?
Four words: That was not helpful.))

words and things

I believe that's why some of us are more concrete, so that we can actually worry about getting shit set up for the rest of you.

((Thanks. I can't help but wonder why you should need to do that at all, though...))

[IronyOwl]

((What four things are you thinking of that would create a whole ecosystem, and how many of them generate Belief?))

((Grass, deer, wolves, worms. Not necessarily a good ecosystem, but presumably self-sustaining, no?

((Not really. To pick the most obvious issue, a lack of decomposers. Worms can only do so much, unless we assume that by "worms" you mean "all the worm species that could be needed" rather than "all species of worms needed to fill the roles of breaking down organisms".))

((I don't see why the worms couldn't be generalists, or why you'd need a separate kind for every season and soil depth. Certainly not just to keep your tribe from starving to death assuming they're good hunters, at least.

But sure, let's see a list of every creature or role you think is necessary to have a functioning ecosystem.))

((Because that's boring. Making everything that isn't a humanoid or someone's special poison bird some sort of generic, nondescript tree or assumed carnivore food source doesn't result in a very interesting or immersive world, and it opens up issues with what exactly is out there. Can poison frogs be assumed in a rainforest? Bison on plains? Lions on savannas? Messenger-worthy birds in forests?

((Notice that I didn't request any animals larger than a rat. So, that would disallow bison and lions. As for poison dart frogs and "messenger-worthy" birds (seeing that just about any bird could do with a short enough distance and a small enough message), why not?))

((Because now people are handwaving paralyzing venoms and assassin beetle swarms in, and the ecosystem still doesn't have any trees or large herbivores anyway. What's the point? If you want or need it, create it.))

If the whole focus of the game was on making mythical beasts and leading your human empires against each other, I could see handwaving everything that wasn't magical or wearing armor. Since the focus is to create an entire world, and indeed, possibly more than one world, it doesn't make any sense to just shrug off massive portions of it just because everyone wants to go for the juicy stuff first.))

((Rats are massive? Guppies are massive? Fungi are massive? Bugs are massive? Grass is massive? Bacteria are massive? All I'm basically asking that all be basic stuff needed to make regions work be assumed to exist and not require time, power, and effort to exist, because it's kinda silly to make a "forest" or "grassland" region if you need to make the trees, grass, and all the organisms needed to let them survive separately from the region itself.))

((You're complaining about them and insisting they're absolutely vital, so apparently so.

All you're asking for is me to handwave everything you don't personally find interesting yet. What kind of grass or trees or vermin or diseases a place has can have a huge impact on all that interesting stuff that comes later.

It's not silly to make a grassland area, because you can make the conditions favor grasses; more importantly, it's not silly to make separate, discrete regions with qualities you desire. What is silly is trying to make Schrodinger's Grasslands that have no concrete features beyond being grasslands, then trying to add interesting things to your generic quantum plains.))

((Really, what's so interesting about making rats, bacteria, and plants just so the world can actually survive? You want to know another reason no one's making these vital aspects of the ecosystem? They've only got a limited time in-game, and want to make something interesting. These little basic building blocks needed for a functioning ecosystem eat into the players' limited resources and don't benefit them.))

((Plenty of people have made or tried to make interesting plants already, so I'd say the answer is the same as everything else- you're creating something. If you don't find creating your own tribe just to have worshipers interesting, that aspect is going to be boring for you, sorry. If you're that set on it, figure out a way around it; otherwise, just create dung beetles or elves or a desert and get it over with.

If you'd like to produce a list of things it's interesting, fun, and beneficial to create, feel free to share that also.

We've been over this already. If you want to immediately make a tribe on someone else's land and then watch them starve to death, be my guest. If you don't find any interest in anything that's not humanoid, my apologies, this will not be a very fun game for you for a few turns at least. If you want to get some free Belief and make future mortals more likely to worship you while laying the foundations for the mortals you really want, there's a fairly obvious and easy way to do that.

Admittedly, the minor gods are in a worse situation with this, because they don't have enough actions to do any framework type stuff. That doesn't mean being the creator of the only grain source on the planet or the most beautiful flowers in the world are wastes of time, it just means they have to be very strategic whether they care about Belief or not.))