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Author Topic: BM XLI: On Wings of Haven -- Scum Victory!  (Read 101608 times)

Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #570 on: June 06, 2013, 11:36:38 pm »

I'm back.

I'll post in a bit.  I'm emotionally drained from being in the thumping part of the Bible-Belt, and also very full of little bitey insects (chiggers).  So I'm taking a break first.
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #571 on: June 07, 2013, 12:02:21 am »

No.  Fuck it.  I am just too tired.

I will post tomorrow.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Tiruin

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #572 on: June 07, 2013, 12:34:50 am »

...I love my replacements. They didn't reply.  :-\

The hunt begins.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 12:42:38 am by Tiruin »
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Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #573 on: June 08, 2013, 02:05:36 am »

Leafsnail:
25 hours before your case on Demdemeh:
It had been one day at that point so you were jumping the gun.
So the fact that he had been off the forum for almost three days meant nothing?

Only you still haven't explained why you think they're weak?

-snip-

I don't think that waffling in response to a question where a couple of words will suffice is helpful.  I don't need to be judged "solely by cases as stand alone items", but I do expect you to at least respond to them and their weaknesses rather than just repeatedly insist that they're shallow.
You hadn't read the game when you made your cases:
I'll try and read the whole thread tomorrow, but for now I'm focusing on the period from when RangerCado claimed (Reply #365) to when he was lynched (Reply #480).
Not re-read, just read.  You never comment on what your read indicated, and whether it improved your confidence in your reads, you just were like: "Yep we're good here, lynch these two now."

Griffionday:
1. If you now regard me as the most suspicious player, how does this affect your other reads (eg on Vector/Dem who you seemed to be leaning on as scum towards the end of day one)?  In particular, who do you think I (or Captain Ford) am scum with?  Try asking that person to comment on your case against me.
My suspicion of you has not (as far as I'm aware) changed my read on anyone else.  As for who you are scum with, it could very well be anyone except Vector; as I doubt Tiruin would allow but the ICs to be scum.  So yeah actually my suspicion of you has lessened my suspicion of Vector; however I consider both of you of interest.

2.
Just as an FYI to Shinigami: What you described Ford as doing is pretty much the definition of active lurking.
What was the purpose of this post?  Did you intend to agree with Shinigami, who you seemed to think was scum at this point?
I wanted to see whether Shinigami was deliberately buddying Ford of if that was non-intentional.

3. In post #369, you voted for Ranger.  What exactly about his claim (which, as I have stated before, I believe to be the correct move under the circumstances - better a claimed living cop than an unclaimed lynched one) made him worth voting?  Why, in post #384 do you seem to be happy with lynching Ranger for being a fool rather than scum?  That said, I do agree with your later reasoning that leads to you unvoting him.
The fact that it came completely out of left field and was his ONLY response.  He nobody was shifting off of him, however only Birdy was really pressing him at the moment.  As he claimed rather than address birdy's pressure, I felt he was way over reacting about the cases on him.

Not rather than; I felt his over-reaction was scummy enough to warrant a lynch of him; however, as plenty of other people were focused on him I decided to focus on Demdemeh and see what I could dig up.


Vector:
I'm back.

I'll post in a bit.  I'm emotionally drained from being in the thumping part of the Bible-Belt, and also very full of little bitey insects (chiggers).  So I'm taking a break first.
Welcome back!  I hope you trip was enjoyable despite it's problems. 

We seem to be in a touch of a quagmire; and your advice on extracting ourselves would be extremely valuable. 

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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #574 on: June 08, 2013, 02:47:41 am »

Yeah, sorry.  I'll post something useful soon.

I'm in a bit worse shape than I had anticipated.
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Leafsnail

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #575 on: June 08, 2013, 09:42:47 pm »

Asking about your case makes people think about the validity of your case and the comparative scummyness of the person accused.  Forcing them do defend their own position makes them more defensive, less open, and focused on themselves.  Instead of explaining points about your case, they'd explain their own choices.  They'd explain that they were voting someone else scummy, or have been too busy to make an informed decision.  They wouldn't necessarily talk about your case at all.
That would be fine too.


Ah.  That's where our disagreement is.  You see yourself giving advice by trying to win the game, kind of acting like an example, where I see you as trying to win the game while ignoring your responsibilities as an IC.  Is my analysis correct?  In the meantime, I'll get used to a different style of IC.
Sortof, I guess?  I don't think it's really possible to a (uncomfirmed alignment) player in a game of mafia and also to give detached advice, so if I see something that needs correcting I'll attack it as a player rather than pretending to be impartial.

1. Yeah, I should be doing that, but I really don't have the time. The indefinite extension is really convenient for me, actually. I'll pressure people when I have more time. You are now reading town to me, actually, if only because I agree with your scumpicks and reasonings.

2. Yes, if I had to pick a scumteam it would be Vector and Dem. You bring up a really good point there, and in my reads post I go into a bit more detail on his jumping on Griffion.
When will you have more time?

So the fact that he had been off the forum for almost three days meant nothing?
Not really, no.  They may have just not bothered to log in during the night and then had a weekend away from home.

You hadn't read the game when you made your cases:

Not re-read, just read.  You never comment on what your read indicated, and whether it improved your confidence in your reads, you just were like: "Yep we're good here, lynch these two now."
It was a long thread, so I focused on the most interesting and relevant part of it to start with (cops claiming is gonna cause mafia members (who know it's the real cop) to react differently to townies (who don't), which helps distinguish them).  I feel the cases derived from that part were strong.

I don't think any of the rest of the thread does anything to go against a Vector/Dem scumteam - I think the way Vector completely failed to engage Dem, while doing so with basically every other player, throughout almost the entirety of day 1 is pretty telling too.

My suspicion of you has not (as far as I'm aware) changed my read on anyone else.  As for who you are scum with, it could very well be anyone except Vector; as I doubt Tiruin would allow but the ICs to be scum.  So yeah actually my suspicion of you has lessened my suspicion of Vector; however I consider both of you of interest.
Your reasoning regarding ICs is incorrect.  A moderator will always assign roles to players completely randomly unless otherwise stated in the OP - thus both ICs being scum is no less likely than any other random pair of players being scum.  I'm pretty sure there was a BM where both ICs were scum, in fact.

I invite you again to consider who your secondary suspect is, considering the interactions of players rather than trying to outguess the moderator.

I wanted to see whether Shinigami was deliberately buddying Ford of if that was non-intentional.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think it would fit the normal definition of buddying (which would be a mafia member trying to ingratiate themselves with a townie, rather than a mafia member simply giving an overly soft analysis of someone's play).

The fact that it came completely out of left field and was his ONLY response.  He nobody was shifting off of him, however only Birdy was really pressing him at the moment.  As he claimed rather than address birdy's pressure, I felt he was way over reacting about the cases on him.

Not rather than; I felt his over-reaction was scummy enough to warrant a lynch of him; however, as plenty of other people were focused on him I decided to focus on Demdemeh and see what I could dig up.
Makes sense.
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TheWetSheep

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #576 on: June 08, 2013, 10:44:02 pm »

Leafsnail:
1. Yeah, I should be doing that, but I really don't have the time. The indefinite extension is really convenient for me, actually. I'll pressure people when I have more time. You are now reading town to me, actually, if only because I agree with your scumpicks and reasonings.

2. Yes, if I had to pick a scumteam it would be Vector and Dem. You bring up a really good point there, and in my reads post I go into a bit more detail on his jumping on Griffion.
When will you have more time?
I have some now, but I'll start having lots of time starting Tuesday, since school's over then. I think I made a mistake; now was definitely not the best time for me to replace into a game.

Griffinpup:
... OK.  TWS, what's your current opinion on Leafsnail and his case on Vector, his communication with Griffy, and my current discussion with him?  I've been trying to get you to participate, so hopefully this works.
OK, your discussion. You're attacking him for being a lazy IC. First of all, you yourself say that it's not a "you are scum" case but more just trying to get him to give better advice. Is he a lazy IC? I'm not sure. Like he says, it's probably mostly his different style. He's not using an IC voice and playing more like an actual player than a teacher. This may work better or worse than being very involved in teaching, I don't know. The way I see it, as long as everybody's play is decent and the IC isn't misinforming us, the IC quality doesn't matter a whole lot. (Disclaimer: I try to avoid hurting feelings wherever possible, so I'm actually very unlikely to flat-out call someone a bad IC, but still)

Griffionday:
And you don't care do you?  I'm glad that you replaced in, but your interest is CLEARLY not in this game.  You haven't been paying attention (you missed a question adressed to the ICs), you're ignoring almost everything that is going on, and you are willing to let town intrest die and assure an easy scum win.  You can't possibly be confident enough in your reads to be 100% sure that Vector and Demdemeh are the scum team, but you are doing NOTHING to improve your reads on other players, or at least pretend to be town long enough to do so.  You seem to refuse to give us an example of what we should be doing in this case; I hardly believe sitting around twiddling your thumbs is ideal play.  You are KILLING town, I seem to be the only player remaining interested in winning this game, everyone else is either burnt out, missing, or soaked in apathy. 

Die, opportunistic, apathetic, lazy scum.
Hmm. If you were scum, do you think you would pay more or less attention to the game? I'm pretty sure that if I was scum I'd be be paying extra attention. I can see not expanding ones reads as a scumtell, but apathy? I can't see it.

Tiruin

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #577 on: June 09, 2013, 01:15:32 am »

..Still no response from our Replacement queue. Resending for the 5th time :<
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zombie urist

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #578 on: June 09, 2013, 01:40:10 am »

Umm... isn't that a little excessive?
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Leafsnail

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2 forever! Replacement needed.
« Reply #579 on: June 09, 2013, 09:05:58 am »

I'd suggest opening it up to non-beginners at this point, an absence this long really hurts the game.
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2! [ANY] Replacement needed.
« Reply #580 on: June 09, 2013, 12:23:40 pm »

And on that note, I'm unfortunately going to have to ask for a replacement.  I've been hoping it wouldn't be necessary, but... no.  I'm not up to any more arguing.

Sorry about this.  I wouldn't even think about it if I weren't fully depleted.
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Griffionday

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2! [ANY] Replacement needed.
« Reply #581 on: June 09, 2013, 12:35:01 pm »

And on that note, I'm unfortunately going to have to ask for a replacement.  I've been hoping it wouldn't be necessary, but... no.  I'm not up to any more arguing.

Sorry about this.  I wouldn't even think about it if I weren't fully depleted.
Please don't leave... It's looking like this day will drag on forever, you can probably take the week off an get back to us later.  I'm really interested in your replies to the current case against you, and you being replaced would essentially lock those cases out from being resolved. 

Of course if you must leave, you must.  You will be missed from this game, hopefully we'll get the chance to see you in action some other time when you are back to normal.

I'd suggest opening it up to non-beginners at this point, an absence this long really hurts the game.
  Agreed.  I'll try and post something substantive tonight; final prep is killing me though.  (I'm not going to ask for a replacement, don't worry)
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2! [ANY] Replacement needed.
« Reply #582 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:02 pm »

If it's an option to take a few more days, I'll do that.  Or maybe respond to posts a couple per day for the next little bit.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Lenglon

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2! [ANY] Replacement needed.
« Reply #583 on: June 09, 2013, 12:57:23 pm »

If it's an option to take a few more days, I'll do that.  Or maybe respond to posts a couple per day for the next little bit.
go ahead and do so, the day is extended indefinitely anyway.
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Vector

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Re: BM XLI: Day 2, A Silent Requiem -- Day 2! [ANY] Replacement needed.
« Reply #584 on: June 09, 2013, 01:02:08 pm »

Okay, good.  This game is relatively low-stress... had to replace out of Toon, but I should be able to stick it out here.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".
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