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[Brood]

Why? When I mentioned this attack last turn people were against it and to use what was said earlier.

Why are you making plans without knowing what happened this year? For all we know half our navy has been sunk or we've just been invaded.

[mesor]

Well if your determined to start a war with an almost unknown enemy then you have production work to do.

You need K-1's, Battlebus's, Monoplane fighters, Monoplane ground attack aircraft and a significantly larger special forces unit.

Then you need to begin with a mass bombing run behind the frontlines to draw attention while the bolstered special forces unit slips in with a newly designed explosive charge and destroys the fortified position so the tanks can punch through with badgers to support it and the battlebus can follow the armor up to provide support while armored cars deploy infantry into the breaches to secure it and begin the task of bringing the territory captured to heel.

Then you need to forget about a naval assault because you don't have navy enough to defend against one nation and attack the other at the same time, so choose one or the other.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Tryrar, I'd rather do airship refuler and develop gear for mid air refueling.
But airship carrier for several light biplanes can work, too

Your basing everything on the fact that an enemy we know almost nothing about isn't strong.

GM said that it has smaller army and stronger Navy

Our current enemy has a fleet equal to our own and you want to send a chunk of our fleet away?

Wrong, it has smaller fleet, and they will not attack us in the exectly  same moment when we strike our enemy

They might attack us, they might not attack us. Thats not a reason to attack first.

That is a reason used for ages of military history: neutralize neigbour before he became stronger

We can't spread it if were dead because we started a second war.

That's not a second war, we'll get only one front

war and an amphibious assault can be managed fine if done properly since we have a better airforce and our new monoplane is a very fast and agile fighter and can also be used as a very powerful ground attack plane,

If Morovia never designed something to counter. If they have no artillery to smash our beachhead, if we mange to bring transports through their coastal batteriers and many other ifs. Besides proper invasion and supply  fleet requires huge investment that could go into tanks\artillery\planes instead

Brood, Just admit,  that you have designs for amphibious assault in your mind and want it only because of that

Last turn situation was very different, we had no bombers, had less Torpedo boats, without a chance to destroy enemy navy we couldn't attack to not lose the sea.
Plus we have armoured cars that will boost our strategical mobility a lot

Mesor, we have advantage in mobility, should use that, not heavy artillery\heavy tanks
And it's one surprise attack! Why you think that we'll fight two navies simultaneously? We will fight them in turns

[Brood]

Actually I dislike naval invasion entirely, but a rushed assault with very limited information is worse then a naval invasion where we know what to expect.
They Had a weaker navy, we don't know what they did in the last year to counter us.
They Had a smaller army and stronger navy That was last year and tells us nothing of how advanced they are.
Thats also the reason why in history those nations always end up dead, other nations attacked them to prevent being attacked first.
It is a second war because it is 2 different enemies, until they decide to work together to fight us because we attacked them.

Our assault on this enemy is no less risky then the assault on Morovia, we have no idea what defenses they have in place against attack, they could have a massive defensive line with heavy artillery and massive anti air for all we know, coastal batteries around the docks.
Both attacks are huge risks which is why I'd prefer to wait another year and expand the army first.

One surprise attack that goes from the border to the enemies capital? Thats weeks if not months at the very least and once we attack the Morovians are certain to offer to help the unknown enemy fight us.

So if we're stuck with attacking we need  heavy armor to repel the inevitable counter assault which needs to be produced, at the very least if you want to push right in we need BattleBus to get the infantry forward through the enemy defenses because tanks alone can not take a nation without doing massive damage to it.

[3_14159]

Actually, whether our navy was destroyed on the turn or not is irrelevant, because the turn hasn't been done yet and will be influenced by our decision.

On the attack itself:
Morovia is currently only reachable by sea, or by going through UnNaCo. That are, basically, our two possibilities.
a) Attacking by Sea: We need to build up our navy, cannot use our torpedo boats and have to do a landing under enemy fire and probably upbuilt coastal forces. Afterwards, we have to secure logistics, that is ship routes, to transport ammo, fuel, ... Also, we'd (after we'd win) enclose UnNaCo, which for them would be a pretty good reason to attack us.

b) Attacking over Land: We use our current Army, which at the moment isn't occupied. They, using ground support, will probably strike pretty deep into the enemy's ranks before reinforcements (in the form of Morovia's army if they ally) arrive. This will form a single front with two enemies, with UnNaCo's army decimated.
if the surprise attack succeeds, they will also have lost much of their navy. If it doesn't, we still can advance outside of the coastal bombardment envelope, and attack with torpedo bombers. Plus, for Morovia to actually attack us with PT boats, they have to move through UnNaCo's coastal waters.

Basically, the problem is as such (excuse my crude drawing skills).

Spoiler: Spoiler due to size. (click to show/hide)

a)
b)

If we attack them directly, the worst case if for them to work together, in which case there'll be one front which we can supply and support directly. Plus, of course, naval attacks which even without the surprise strike we should be able to use our coastal guns and bombers to defend the coast.
If we attack over sea, the best case is a single front we have to supply over seas (with the enemy subs), the worst case two fronts.

[Brood]

Meh if we are attacking fine, it's still a bad idea given our little we know about our enemies tech but whatever.

We need heavy armor and more special forces to do it since our best advantage is that we likely have the best land based equipment, why bother building heavy tanks and heavy transports at all if your going to leave it sitting in the workshop and use lighter weaker equipment for the assault?

Hell the entire point for both designs is that they have the punch for a frontal assault.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Warplan

Do "Pearl Harbour" to the unnamed country (I propose Capia for it's name) Use a combination of surprise attack from the air using our respectable fleet of biplanes, and from sea by Righteous boats to strike ships of the unnamed country in the port. Also use some  Righteous boats to land special forces at the naval base to further the damage. and destroy coastal batteries if some exist, then send third wave consisting of our large ships to completely devastate enemy naval base Than use our tanks, atrmored cars and 40mm trailers (and air support)  to rapidy advanche to the capital of the capitalist pigs to arrest government evil oppressors

Post surprise attack, depending on results our navy and airforce should:
a) If the attack is successful, whole Navy patrol Capia's territorial waters in attempt to disrupt shipping and possible Moravian aid, 25% of airforce aids navy, 75% aids army advance
b) if attacks fails to destroy majority of Capia's navy, Navy goes on defensive under protection of coastal guns, 75% of airforce aids navy, 25% aids armed forces [/color]


If anyone supports that, I ask to do a bold vote or offer bolded subvariants . I am not gonna to discuss it anymore as I said everything in earlier posts

No, not everything. I forgot the most important reason against Amphibious landing : if we do amphibious attack and our neighbor will strike us in that moment THAN we'll have a nasty two front war with our best forces on enemy shores, cut off from supplies and unable to return home due to enemy navy. while our mainland is attacked....

[kahn1234]

I'd support that plan.

So long as my K-1's lead the charge.

[Brood]

Fine attack it is.

But the K-1 and Battlebus units make the initial breach and they tackle cities and heavily fortified positions, leave the badgers and armored cars to dealing with the rest of the country and let the heavy units deal with the biggest targets.

[RAM]

Eh, what the hell, I'll go for it. Even if it blows up in our faces, it should be fun!

On another note, what did you guys think of my airborne aircraft carrier idea?

I like the airship-carrier.

Some people have mentioned the badger II, I do not believe that it has been officially proposed, although installing the engine is part of proposal 3, although proposal three may take a while...

I would hold the K-1s back, or, rather, just not wait for them to catch up, and have them available if the badgers meet something that they don't like. But leading the charge is also good...

[kahn1234]

Eh, what the hell, I'll go for it. Even if it blows up in our faces, it should be fun!

On another note, what did you guys think of my airborne aircraft carrier idea?

I like the airship-carrier.

Some people have mentioned the badger II, I do not believe that it has been officially proposed, although installing the engine is part of proposal 3, although proposal three may take a while...

I would hold the K-1s back, or, rather, just not wait for them to catch up, and have them available if the badgers meet something that they don't like. But leading the charge is also good...

The K-1s speed isnt that much lower than the badgers, and with the 2 400 horsepower engines i want in them, they'll be much faster. We call the K-1 a heavy tank, but really its more like a medium tank (at least, when compared to tanks in the late 30's/ early 40's and later).

[Brood]

Then simple option.

K-1 and Battlebus breach the enemy line and push directly on for the capitol, we have to subdue the whole country anyway which is where speed comes in so use armored cars and badgers for that and leaves the K-1 and battlebus to head for the capitol which is probably the most heavily defended area.

So like this.




7.1
Do "Pearl Harbour" to the unnamed country (I propose Capia for it's name) Use a combination of surprise attack from the air using our respectable fleet of biplanes, and from sea by Righteous boats to strike ships of the unnamed country in the port. Also use some  Righteous boats to land special forces at the naval base and along the coast to further the damage. and destroy coastal batteries if some exist and advance inland to scout enemy positions, then send third wave consisting of our large ships to completely devastate enemy naval base with a second wave of bombings.
Also send a few biplanes inland to scout enemy positions ahead of the attack.
Than use our upgraded badgers in the lead and armored car forces behind bringing in infantry along with air support to rapidy advance to the capital of the capitalist pigs to arrest government evil oppressors while non upgraded badgers, armored cars and cannons are used to destroy any other pockets of resistance.
Special forces units also advance to the Morovian border to provide early warning of enemy reinforcements from hidden positions.

Post surprise attack, depending on results our navy and airforce should:
a) If the attack is successful, whole Navy patrol Capia's territorial waters in attempt to disrupt shipping and possible Moravian aid, 25% of airforce aids navy, 75% aids army advance
b) if attacks fails to destroy majority of Capia's navy, Navy goes on defensive under protection of coastal guns, 75% of airforce aids navy, 25% aids armed forces


Same plan as Ukranian just a little more specific, covers for a wider variety of enemy actions and uses all of our advantages.

[mesor]

Looks good, I would suggest Broods over the original, since it includes scouting the enemy before the land assault, setting up a warning system for enemy reinforcements, uses the land military units strengths and also subdues the whole country not just the capitol.
We have no guarantee they will surrender if the capitol falls.

I cannot stress enough how big of a step up Broods is purely because his includes scouting first, rather then a head on charge with no idea whats between you and the enemy.

Your plan is good Ukranian but it's very... limited, in it's scope. Brood just expanded on your plan to cover for other risks and reduce the casulties likely to be taken.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Guys, sometimes I suspect that you don't read updates...
We have no K-1s yet ... Not that we really need them as we have quite a lot of armor already, and huge fleet of 1000 aircrafts

Quantity beats  quality every day, and Badger is a very good tank

[mesor]

We have a turn to build them, since I'm fairly sure this attack is to be planned for the turn coming not the turn just gone.

But if it is the one just gone Broods can be altered and is still a better fit since it takes more into account then yours, both are good yours is just a little bit narrow minded, in hoping that the enemy will surrender the moment the capitol falls and not just continue fighting, while Broods includes fighting them from the get go so if they surrender good, if not they are already being beaten down.

Quantity also looses when it comes up against something it can't beat, if it is done next turn then use the equipment for what it's best suited. heavier vehicles are best for assaulting fortified positons, faster are best for for controlling a large area.
So heavy hits capitol faster spreads out and crushes resistance.