Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dariush]

Lenglon: It seems that, so far, you think it's a better idea to lynch a lurker/absent player other than someone acting in a scummy way. Why?

because someone who is totally absent isn't contributing to our information in any way at all. active scum are constantly at risk of fingering themselves and their scumbuddies, and so having scum around can be useful to finding scum. someone who is completely idle is totally useless, be they town or scum. as long as it is neither MYLO nor LYLO I would prefer to lynch someone who completely fails to communicate over someone mildly or even moderately scummy (very scummy... yeah, lynch that despite the lurker). That threshold is easy to get above, and once nobody is totally idle then I would prefer to lynch someone who is acting scummy, but someone who fails to do anything at all is more of a liability to us than probable scum is in my opinion.

What the fuck are my eyes seeing. If someone is lurking, he is prodded and then replaced. Forgoing any effort at all and focusing on lurkers is scummy in itself. Admitting to doing so to exclusion of people you suspect of being scum (whom, I should remind you, you town needs to lynch to win) is bordering on refuge in audacity.

Dariush:

Dariush: you said NQT dropped many minor scumtells over time, could you list and link them for me?

Protip: there's no need to repeat the question if I haven't posted since you asked it.

Here, here, desperately trying to shift the attention from himself and onto lurkers without actually presenting any even half-valid arguments (as seen here with huge-ass text where he begs people to look away from himself because ermahgerd OF is lurking), since accusing lurkers requires zero effort (apart from opening Lurkertracker), HINT HINT LENGLON HINT HINT, painting the lurkers as guaranteed scum, thus forgoing any scumhunting at all, HINT HINT LENGLON HINT HINT.

[lordnincompoop]

Griffinpup has been prodded.

And sorry guys.  I'm going to be gone from tomorrow to about Monday or Tuesday.  Admittedly, repelling is far more fun then this, but it is unfortunate that I have to be gone for so long, so extend.

He said ahead of time what was happening with him. prod is pointless.

I didn't see that at all, actually. Damn.

[notquitethere]

To recap:

Dariush -- Still hasn't responded to anything I've said to him. Is purposefully ignoring me now. Thinks lurkers are less scummy than me but gives no reason why we should believe him.
Toaster -- Has made the semblance of justification for his attacks (but if you have half a brain then you know what alignment I am. Reread the penultimate thing I addressed to you.)
Deathsword -- His case against me subsists entirely on me addressing town as town.
Ottofar  -- Responds to my post countering his bullshit arguments by saying I seem desperate.

WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH OTTOFAR INSTEAD

What has Ottofar's contribution to this game been?

Ottofar has had a grand total of four posts in this game. 1, 2, 3, 4. Let's have a look at them.

In the first post he flavour claims and then puts his vote on me for starting the flavour claim, for a 'WIFOM' argument which wasn't even meant as an argument, for voting Leafsnail, and for claiming to be from out of town. So far this isn't particularly damning: some of these could have been genuine misunderstandings and all the points were later addressed. He asks a few RVS question, apparently to me but Lenglon also replies.

In the second post, he says that he doesn't disagree with the flavour claims, tacitly drops the point about WIFOM and Leafsnail, and responds to my argument that voting me for a stranger makes no sense by saying, 'Heh. Votes on oneself rarely feel like they make sense, do they?', which is not a counterargument. He says Lenglon is out for blood for wanting to be a vigilante and tells Dariush and Okami that it's perfectly fine to focus entirely on one person.

Third post is a defence aimed at Dariush on focusing entirely and exclusively on one person.

Then he disappears into the forest for a bit and what does he come out with?

[Why is X Scummier than Y]

Everyone

Particularly the latter post of the two, the first one I at first marked off as lazy town play, but the second one seems to me to be desperate to stay alive. So are you a survivor?

My post in which I point-by-point take down the arguments against me, he calls a desperate attempt to stay alive: he ignores the content of my counterarguments and focuses on the form and then asks me if I'm a survivor.

The rest of the post is response to Lenglon where he admits:

I'm not that great of a scumhunter myself, so I try to learn people's alignments instead.

Ottofar has made no contribution to this game, he hasn't even looked at anyone else since his first post and his later posts have been an attempt to defend his self-admittedly terrible scumhunting.

[Tiruin]

-scissors snip snip-

PFP

Quick query: Is Ottofar that much of a liability compared to the others present, NQT?

[Lenglon]

Dariush: I was asked why I think a policy-lynch of someone who is lurking is a better idea than a lynch of someone I suspect is scum. I answered. Your rant only makes sense if I'd been focusing on lurkers to the exclusion of everyone else. that statement was quite simply an explanation of why LAL-policy makes sense.

[Lenglon]

Dariush: Upon reviewing your linked posts, it looks like they all boil down too: "he is growing desperate and flailing as he becomes the main lynch target, ergo scum." that's not many minor scumtells Dar, that's one minor scumtell done repeatedly. I agree fully that he's been doing exactly that, but I find it odd that you're basing your entire case on it.

NQT: I know this is going to sound crazy coming from someone who is already voting for Ottofar over pretty much the exact same reasons as you listed, but that's not a good case for why he is scum, it's merely a case for why he is a liability. You aren't pointing out anything he has done or said that is scummy, or an instance where he obviously should and could have done something and let the opportunity pass idly by. all Ottofar has to do to completely negate your case is a little basic scumhunting. I suspect that no matter what his alignment is, he's good enough at mafia to accomplish that. There's a reason I'm citing my vote on Ottofar as a pressure vote - as soon as he does enough to let me get a actual feel for what kind of person he is, my vote is going to shift to someone else.

[Ottofar]

NQT

things that go snip

I am voting you basically because you're desperate to stay alive. Because you're panicking over the possibility of actually getting lynched. Because I think you're third party, and probably a SK since you didn't claim a survivor.

Some things that I think make you look panicky.
Dedicating full posts on self defense.
Pleading the town to vote someone else.
Belittling intelligence of those voting you. I mean, this one even applies to Dariush, as a tell.
You've dropped your frenchiness.
Calling all the cases on you bullshit.


Basically you're afraid to die. Town shouldn't be, at least not as much as you. This is a major scum tell in my book.

The post is a desperate attempt to throw people off you because there's absolutely nothing else there. You vote in the post, but it's a OMGUS. So yeah.

Also using WIFOM to defend yourself at several points.

He says Lenglon is out for blood for wanting to be a vigilante and tells Dariush and Okami that it's perfectly fine to focus entirely on one person.

[--]

Ottofar has made no contribution to this game, he hasn't even looked at anyone else since his first post and his later posts have been an attempt to defend his self-admittedly terrible scumhunting.

You are aware that word-twisting, ignoring parts of people's posts and outright lying are all scumtells? I consider presenting posts from a subjective point of view almost damning by itself.

I, at no point have stated that focusing on a single person is a good thing. Quite the opposite, tunneling is a minor scumtell in my book. It, however does progress the game, as long as it is given some attention by other people, but doesn't become the sole focus of the first day.

Also, I have contributed, just not exceedingly huge amounts.

Tiruin
I'm not certain about the exact psychology behind the question, and I can't say it's my favourite one, it's just one I like to use, and is usually an effective one. It and similar ones (1-shot kill, protect, hide, patrol, poison... there is a lot of these).  Anyways, I think having the choice clear-cut and defined between the opposites makes the result more obvious. I think it's rather reliable, for a RVS question. And I've had some success with it. Something like 65-35 or something, I think, so there's that.

I'm a bit in a hurry right now, but Extend and yeah. Sorry if I missed anything.

[Tiruin]

...Ok, either I'm blind, or I'm not seeing where NQT is going, or perhaps pleading for his life. He's attracting attention, of course, but his attention was put in a directive way. 'See what they're doing to me'-ish.

...

Ottofar

Some things that I think make you look panicky:
Dedicating full posts on self defense. =...This entails someone being explicitly panicky, how?
Pleading the town to vote someone else. = Pleading? How is he pleading compared to pointing it out?
Belittling intelligence of those voting you. I mean, this one even applies to Dariush, as a tell. = ...Belittling how?
You've dropped your frenchiness. = How is this panicky? He's stating things clearer as far as I can see without it.
Calling all the cases on you bullshit. = He did? All of them?

I've a few things to poke on your matter.

Basically you're afraid to die. Town shouldn't be, at least not as much as you. This is a major scum tell in my book.

How is he afraid to die compared to how he's pointing out what he sees in others' posts? While I'd argue on his errors, you seem to be committing the same in view of shifting the meaning without quoting in context what exactly implicates him. The snippity snip post was a nice point, but I want to see exacts, here if you're going full throttle on him in that manner.

Also using WIFOM to defend yourself at several points.

Which points do you see?

I'm not certain about the exact psychology behind the question, and I can't say it's my favourite one, it's just one I like to use, and is usually an effective one. It and similar ones (1-shot kill, protect, hide, patrol, poison... there is a lot of these).  Anyways, I think having the choice clear-cut and defined between the opposites makes the result more obvious. I think it's rather reliable, for a RVS question. And I've had some success with it. Something like 65-35 or something, I think, so there's that.

Attributing a characteristic to a role isn't..quite logical given how the mod creates it. HOwever in picking a role, where I see the advantage goes is in how the role serves and not the explicit intent of the person as said intent can change despite the straightforwardness of the ability--it serves more as their tool to get into a wincon (the only basis I can state here is King of the Mafia).

Lenglon: "Hello there!"

...So what's your take on Ottofar now, and if any nuances would be called into question, do you have any other suspicions on the huge list of players?

[Leafsnail]

@Vector: Toony asked for some predictions so I made some

@Lenglon: have already discussed softclaiming to death, scum has no idea about the role of someone unclaimed.  Short posts because phone and highly unreliable public internet.

[Vector]

@Vector: Toony asked for some predictions so I made some

@Lenglon: have already discussed softclaiming to death, scum has no idea about the role of someone unclaimed.  Short posts because phone and highly unreliable public internet.

Do you know when you'll be able to post normally again?

[Leafsnail]

Monday.

[lordnincompoop]

Votecount:

Dariush	- 0 -
Deathsword	- 1 -	griffinpup
griffinpup	- 1 -	Leafsnail
Leafsnail	- 1 -	Vector
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 4 -	Toaster, Ottofar, Dariush, Deathsword
Okami No Rei	- 1 -	zombie urist
Ottofar	- 2 -	Lenglon, notquitethere
Tiruin	- 0 -
Toaster	- 1 -	Tiruin
ToonyMan	- 0 -
Vector	- 1 -	ToonyMan
zombie urist	- 1 -	Okami No Rei
-
Not Voting	- 0 -
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 5 -	notquitethere, Toaster, Tiruin, Lenglon, Ottofar
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day has been extended to Monday, the 12th of August, 8PM GMT.

4 votes required to Extend. 7 votes required to Shorten. 2 Extends left for the Day.

[Vector]

WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH OTTOFAR INSTEAD

Instead?  Why the focus on instead?

Monday.

All right.  I look forward to your contribution then.

[Leafsnail]

The wagon on NQT is screaming 'day one mislynch' to me.  Do you want to see him lynched?

[Leafsnail]

Monday.

Assuming I'm not murdered by dissidents tonight that is.