Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ottofar]

Sorry about that, went to a forest, forgot my cell phone.

NQT

Ottofar

Heh. Votes on oneself rarely feel like they make sense, do they?
Have you ever been here before?

[I fail to see your continued case on me Ottofar. Chuckling softly to yourself is not an argument. You say you would have got reads from people refusing to claim, but isn't that exactly what has just happened with Leafsnail? To answer your question:]

"Non! I have never been to Uzés before my recent arrival."

I was ready to unvote you at this point. Then these happened.

[Why is X Scummier than Y]

Everyone

Particularly the latter post of the two, the first one I at first marked off as lazy town play, but the second one seems to me to be desperate to stay alive. So are you a survivor?


Lenglon

Lenglon

Ottofar: I'd prefer Vig, even when I've found scum I have trouble arguing my cases well, having a vigkill would allow me to bypass that problem if necessary.

The point of this and similar questions is to find out about the answerer's goals in the game. Your answer, a killing role tells me that you're out for blood. This is suspicious.

Ottofar: riiiiiiight, so aggression is scummy and passivity is townie, clearly I should sit back and do as little as possible. explain yourself please.

It's more like your intent, your goal in this game to kill people. You'd rather be impulsive than work with town. This won't alone condemn you or make you scum, but it makes me want to look at you closer at some point.

Ottofar: you have posted twice thus far, the first time you had one RVS question to me, which you said was your favorite, and was prompted by me directly asking for it, and three RVS questions for NQT, who you voted over an issue unrelated to the questions. the second time you had no questions for anyone. why are you playing so passively?

Because that's how I play. In the case of NQT, there was something that piqued my interest. I'm not that great of a scumhunter myself, so I try to learn people's alignments instead.

I note that your vote (like mine) isn't going to get our target lynched at the moment. I'm voting Toaster because he has lazily kept his RVS vote on the prime lynch candidate without a convincing reason; why should we be voting Ottofar?]

right now it's a pressure vote, it'll become a lynch vote if he doesn't shape up and provide some more content though. When the time comes I'll present a lynch case, right now is not that time. I'm not voting for a prime lynch canidate because I don't find any of the lynch cases presented thus far compelling.

I'm not entirely certain pressure votes work that way.

Ottofar: are you here or not?

Nope.

Ottofar: Tick tock, you going do something? you're lurking mighty hard.

7 hours from the first query, about being here. We're not in a terrible hurry here.

I would like to request a Lynch All Lurkers policy-lynch on Ottofar. the last time he did any scumhunting was his first post of the game. I do not want to have a BM XL situation where the scum sit back, lurk, and watch the town tear itself apart.

3 hours from the previous query. Seems awfully panicky, don't you think? Also, this isn't a beginners game. And policy lynches are kinda bad, since they don't leave much to work on. Lynch all Liars should be enforced though, in my opinion.

How many games have you played?

Anyways, I absolutely have to make some food right now.

[Tiruin]

Lenglon

Ottofar: I'd prefer Vig, even when I've found scum I have trouble arguing my cases well, having a vigkill would allow me to bypass that problem if necessary.

The point of this and similar questions is to find out about the answerer's goals in the game. Your answer, a killing role tells me that you're out for blood. This is suspicious.

Ottofar: riiiiiiight, so aggression is scummy and passivity is townie, clearly I should sit back and do as little as possible. explain yourself please.

It's more like your intent, your goal in this game to kill people. You'd rather be impulsive than work with town. This won't alone condemn you or make you scum, but it makes me want to look at you closer at some point.

Would you rather be a doctor or a vigilante? I'll tell you why, after you answer me.

So this is your favorite RVS question. It differentiates two separate notions, and it's coming off as an intent, I gather? Why poke at two extremes and use a definite approach to them, as well as attribute certain characteristics to the role and why it's chosen?

And policy lynches are kinda bad, since they don't leave much to work on. Lynch all Liars should be enforced though, in my opinion.

I feel like you've some context to the Lynch all Liars. Is there any situation wherein this would apply? Presence of conditions?

[Lenglon]

Ottofar:
I get impatient when I feel ignored, and was being pressed over not making a case when my vote was kinda busy sitting on you. having said that, I do think I was being too hasty there with the three lurking complaints back to back. now then.

why are you still being passive? you've had over two days since you last posted, and all you have to ask anyone is a dead-end question of NQT, where you ask if he is a survivor. and you ask me how many games i've played, demonstrating perfect thread awareness since two posts down from a post of mine you quoted I answer that question as fully as anyone could ask for.

are you planning to do something this game?
I know i missed some questions to me since my last post, I'm going to go back and answer them, I just want to ask ottofar what I can before he goes offline for another 2 days.

[Lenglon]

Query to you:

-snip snip scissors-

I can understand the point of not having an evident case on people, and the notion of you starting (or making it obvious) with the questions there, however I've to ask Why Ottofar? What stands out in him that warrants your suspicion?

How did you see his response as?

What makes Ottofar stand out is his inaction. he's said and done so little that I can't get any kind of feel for him. I don't have any understanding of how he thinks, any feel for his alignment, anything. His only action has been a vote on an easy target, but that vote wasn't without reason. The other thing he did that bothered me was the way he responded to my question of him. Specifically, he didn't include what the other possible answer (Doctor) would mean. It looked to me like he was attempting to drive me off, make me leave him alone, not actually to answer my question properly, and he doesn't look to be scumhunting. So I figured it was time to go sit my vote on him for a while, and see what happens. what happened was he disappeared for two days, then came back still without taking any significant action. so... yeah, I still find him the most suspicious here.

[zombie urist]

Everyone
[Think about this carefully. If I'm scum, where's my scum team to make an alternative case? Look at the votes-- they're evenly spread except for on me. I'm willing to bet that this pattern has never been seen on a day 1 scum lynch before. All it takes for evil to prevail is you all doing nothing.

I actually think you're third party so you don't have a scumteam.

Lenglon: Using Lynch All Lurkers as an excuse to lynch Ottofar is lazy and it feels like you don

 

[zombie urist]

't really have a case.

Sorry for the split post.

[Lenglon]

ZU: I'm not pressing that anymore, now that he's posted.

[Tiruin]

Everyone
[Think about this carefully. If I'm scum, where's my scum team to make an alternative case? Look at the votes-- they're evenly spread except for on me. I'm willing to bet that this pattern has never been seen on a day 1 scum lynch before. All it takes for evil to prevail is you all doing nothing.

I actually think you're third party so you don't have a scumteam.

Lenglon: Using Lynch All Lurkers as an excuse to lynch Ottofar is lazy and it feels like you don

I'd ask you on both accounts. Why do you think he's a third party. Why do you feel like Lenglon doesn't really have a case based on the LAL policy?

[ToonyMan]

@Vector:

Your argument is that I'm active-lurking because I'm attacking Lenglon, my main suspect out of the various people whom I initially questioned?  Are you serious?  Where is the lack of contribution?

Well, the way I see it you've behaving on a "respond when responded to" policy and your posts largely consistent of banter with Lenglon.  It makes it hard to even remember they're your top scum pick.

Wait, was there a carpenter here?  I may have apprenticed my sons to you.

NQT claimed journeyman carpenter, but "a journeyman could not employ others." I'm assuming "employ" also extends to apprenticeships since its not explicitly stated.

Oh, right.  Maybe all three have the same master, then.

Why is this listed under "Lenglon" in your list?  If you're going to chainsaw, at least get it right.  I realize this is only one point, but on the other hand it demonstrates that you were writing your case on autopilot.

To be fair the first quote was within 48 hours from my post date, however I didn't click back a page to get it so I'll let that settle.  The second quote is completely my bad, but to put this into perspective I incorrectly labeled one quote out of nine.  89% success rate.

List of suspects... Lenglon.
Ottofar, Deathsword and Zombie Urist are on my watchlist but they can wait for now.  Ottofar is the one I'm most worried about.  Something feels genuinely off about him.

I can agree with most of these.  Ottofar and Zombie Urist are suspicious to me.  I don't really remember what Deathsword is doing (attack on Grffinpup?) and Lenglon I think is attracting unwarranted attention like NQT.


@Zombie Urist:

"I wish for a peaceful place, and do not want witch-trials ravaging the town."  It's the only thing "this" could be referring to.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying a "peaceful place" is for the good of the people? Are "the witch trials" for the good of the people? Is your wish for the good of the people? Also I find it hard to believe that the viscount is unaware of the famine and drought going on in his town. 

You got me, I have no idea how to respond to your line of questioning anymore.  If you have an answer you were looking for you can tell me.

I was assuming my character didn't have any knowledge of any misfortune striking his town (preposterous even), if I ctrl+f my role PM for the words "plague", "famine", "drought", and "miscarriage" I get zero hits.  So yes, he may know and I was just being an idiot.  This is the only thing I can think of.

This post from Tiruin responding to a Lenglon inquire is interesting.  Lenglon's character seems to have a motivation for witch-hunting, Tiruin is purposely withholding because it's "confusing", and my character does not want to witch-hunt (not that I'm going to listen to him).

You also accuse NQT and Dariush here, but one of your stated reasons for NQT is that they're "female".  I am not voting Vector because their character is female, but because I don't believe their intentions are sincere, Mr. Old-Clothes Salesman.

As a question towards you, how do you see Ottofar right now?


@Tiruin:

ToonyMan: "I suppose you know what you whispered to one of your men before he rode off, right?"

Shooting a PM at LNCP.  I can only imagine I wanted to inform my wife and the guards and stuff there.

Anyway. You voted Vector for active lurking. What was in her context that deserved that vote?
What do you see in lurkers that gets them a vote? What do you see in lurkers in general?

For Vector what I saw was an inactive player that was still posting.  After my vote she has a nice post or two responding to me and others and giving scum opinions and a giving real accusations towards Lenglon, but afterwards it's bickering again, and then she's completely flip-flops on NQT, which I can even see Lenglon doing.  The whole ellipsis and then accepting the other's point.

I usually don't vote lurkers since I forget they're even playing, which is bad on me I guess.  I don't think Ottofar or Leafsnail are playing particularly well right now and a large reason is because they're just barely here.

I would vote a lurker if I knew they were available but weren't posting.  Like for example I can remember asking "where are you Toaster?", but he usually immediately appeared afterwards by coincidence.  Basically, if you've had a full day to post and have not, you are likely purposely avoiding participation and that's a scum tell (or maybe you're really stressed out from real-life but then I wouldn't consider you very "available" anyway).

[Vector]

I'm trying to figure out what Lenglon's deal is; my posts weren't exactly something I was trying to bottle up for mass consumption, or to convince anyone.  I didn't flip-flop on NQT, either.  That was the only part of his post I objected to, and though I still think he shouldn't have posted that bit, I understand how using unpopular scumhunting criteria can look like WIFOM.  Once he explained "I'm referring to my voting records thing" I knew that it wasn't WIFOM, but rather a technique I disagreed with; and he was quite chill about it, too.

Yes, I've focused on Lenglon.  So what?  If she's scum, then it's time well-spent.

I would like to request a Lynch All Lurkers policy-lynch on Ottofar. the last time he did any scumhunting was his first post of the game. I do not want to have a BM XL situation where the scum sit back, lurk, and watch the town tear itself apart.

Don't request it.  Convince us.  And don't advocate a policy lynch when that's not the policy, because your argument is totally powerless when you do that.  The lynch has to be more viable than any other lynch.

And, in that case, you have to explain why Ottofar's lurking is more important than NQT's everything.  I don't care if you're not taking that tack anymore--that doesn't excuse this sort of behavior.

Spoiler: Toaster/Toonyman's prod on my prod on NQT (click to show/hide)

Tiruin:

NQT

"Bonjour everyone! My name is Katherine Boulengier and I am a journeyman carpenter, new to this ville. Alors! It is most effroyable to be quarantined like so, and our best hope is to find zese mauvais witches as rapidly as possible. To facilitate zis, I suggest we all share our names and professions."

"Alright, how is sharing one's identity even going to help here? Or possibly track who is a witch or not? If these things were such, then the inquisition would be easily finding them by now. Unless it is the inquisition, which I doubt.

"Still. My name is Gillette Doulze, an aid to my father's inn. I am not from this town, but on errands from my father and sternly advised by my mother. Local marketplace groceries and such. This seems to be a very strange point you're making. Meaning that you didn't continue on this point you made from earlier."

Now, earlier I said I was suspicious about the claims, aye? Here's my suspicion. While this does avert the notion of people not knowing each other (and on the notion of being a common point given the idea that scum only know alignment difference and all that), this is strange in itself in asking the name and profession and connecting it with directly finding witches.

What would you hope to gain other than knowing our name and probable profession?

I find it odd that you vote NQT for asking for claims then immediately proceed to claiming yourself anyway.  Why is asking for it scummy when you're willing to do it anyway?

Toaster is right here, you did what Okami did a few days ago and it still bothers me to contradict yourself like that.  I think in Okami's case he said soft-claiming is the right way to go (as a bunch of people have agreed, like Dariush and Toaster and me), but NQT's action to claim and then tell everybody else that they should claim was a bit forceful and leads to suspicion.

*Ahem*
Let me clarify. My vote was a pressure vote--something I usually do at the start of the game or within my first posts so I can start building up along the way.

Oh, it's a pressure vote!  So it's fine to contradict yourself.

That's like "I was claiming, the way that people do in the endgame to weed out imposters, which is why it's fine that I claimed SK and you shouldn't vote me."

Vector: Up till recent time, I note your duel with Lenglon--what do you exactly see with her motives and/or intentions? It isn't exactly clear on what you're forwarding,

I apologized because I knew several of you wouldn't understand my view on this.

Really?  No one is making anyone RP, so I'm not sure who or what you're worried about.

As far as I can see what she meant, it was directed at this.

Maybe that's why I quoted that statement in my original attack:

All right.  Please explain why you're apologizing here:

"Please, don't be too harsh on me, ok?"

This isn't that hard.  I'm asking why she thinks people will be upset at her lack of desire to roleplay, and she said that Dariush was upset about it.  Apparently it was a relatively elementary miscommunication.

However I'm confused. By recent posts, it's mostly all angled towards her. I sense you're trying to scope her out: Her intention or motive and why she's posting like such? What has made her such a prominent target for you?

At this point I think she's just extraordinarily naive, so unvote.  But throughout the game she's been conflating a lack of authoritative behavior with impoliteness, made sloppy excuses for keeping out of the center of things (because we're just doing a bunch of chainsaws, we're not actually figuring anything out!), and, well, requesting policy lynches on people for lurking over actually doing things.  Engaging in ad hominems to defend herself against my accusations.  These are all things that nervous scum will happily engage in to throw off the scent, making appeals to emotion... but so do noobtown.

But at this point... my impression is that she actually doesn't know what's going on.  So I'm going to give it a little time.

Gonna have to reread in a while.

[ToonyMan]

PFP

@Tiruin:
"Tell my wife to bar the gates and not to let anyone in until I come. Tell her what's going on, and to warn the King and anyone she is familiar with. Tell her to get help."


@Vector:
Okay.


@Leafsnail:
You should be back soon, what are your thoughts on the situation (who are scum)?  Who do you think will be targeted (not just scum night-kills) tonight?

[Teneb]

Finally here after dealing with a lot of bullshit with the internet company.

Lenglon: It seems that, so far, you think it's a better idea to lynch a lurker/absent player other than someone acting in a scummy way. Why?

Everyone
[Think about this carefully. If I'm scum, where's my scum team to make an alternative case? Look at the votes-- they're evenly spread except for on me. I'm willing to bet that this pattern has never been seen on a day 1 scum lynch before. All it takes for evil to prevail is you all doing nothing.

This is some massive bullshit. Just because it never happened before it does not mean it'll never happen. In BM XL I fakeclaimed and borno counterclaimed. Had it ever happened before in a BM? Probably not. Did it still happen? Yes, it did. And don't think I haven't noticed your appeal to emotion at the end.

You then list off some of the accusations and counter them. I don't feel that is particularly scummy. This, however, is:

Town, it's your job to critically examine the votes against the Day 1 lynch lead. Do it.

You talk to the town as if you are not part of it. Strange, is it not? You slipped good there.
NQT, thou art caught.

On a personal note unrelated to the case: NQT, you can RP to your heart's content as long as you still scumhunt, but, seriously, stop with the fake french accent.

[Leafsnail]

No time.  Town feelings on NQT, Lenglon, Toony.  Mafia on Vector.  Will look at griffin's post properly later.

Feel like Toony will probably scumdie tonight, maybe ZU.  Lenglon/NQT would be inspected

[Leafsnail]

@gpup: can't do timewaster requests.  Your vote is 'buried' because it's sitting on someone for an old reason and you don't seem to be making a serious attempt to discern their alignment or get them lynched.  Thus it's basically a dead vote and it's helping you avoid anyone noticing you.

[Okami No Rei]

I will be attending a party tonight with a friend who's come in from out of town, so I don't have time for more than BM moderation.  I will be back tomorrow evening.