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[Vector]

Vector - Thank you.  Based on the past two WCs, would you consider WC in general to be a "crazy game"?

Like I said, "crazy game" in the sense I was using was more about player behavior than the substrate.  That's something we usually find out about at the very end of the game, unless we're the person actively setting up the gambit.

For your question, though: I don't really know enough about WC to say if it's crazy or not (don't have the time or inclination to read the old ones at the moment).  Rysith's Semi-Bastard was crazy.  Neruz's Bastard was crazy.  Pandar's iPick was crazy.  All of the KWNs were crazy.  I'm not really sure if Witches' Coven has as many things coming completely out of left field as those did... and I think it's too soon to say.

I'll happily answer the question in full once we start having some roleflips.

[Lenglon]

Vector: you linked me to a massive waste of my time. a game with PMs flying everywhere which a later spectator - like me - cannot read, and where the flavortext and RPing affected ingame mechanics, and was not actually just RP. additionally, you were by no means the only person RPing heavilly that game, many of the non-scum were RP-heavy as well, making RP look more and more like a null-tell instead of a scum-tell.

do you have a better example?

[Vector]

Uh... ok?

No, I can't do better than that, because that's the only game I've played where I've RP'd in order to avoid scumhunting.  Surprisingly enough, I haven't played many RP-heavy games.

You can call it a null-tell and we can bicker all you like, but I know two things:

1. I have certainly engaged with flavortext rather than scumhunt in order to protect myself

2. RPing often comes into question as a potential scumtell (source: four years of experience, sorry I can't actually link you to specifics).  Whether it is an actual scumtell or not is debatable.  For myself, it usually is.

[Lenglon]

...
ok
unvote

[Dariush]

I am Michiel Verdomme, a tailor catering to the wealthy customers.

Dariush:  What lessons from the previous WC games do you think can be applied to this one?

Well, witches will probably turn out to not be the main threat, but some other magic users will. In the first game we had a wizard with a golem, next we had elves, now I won't be surprised if we have druids with shamans and spirits of the dead people from the previous games or something.

LS: I remember that at least one game of the two so far had a flavourcop who snooped on houses and learned details about their occupants. Since the possibility of having one here outweighs the possibility of someone anti-town gaining benefit from our names, I consider this strategy valid.

Dariush:  Given you've played a third party in a Witches' Coven game before, what sort of difficulties do you expect in trying to find them?

...That's the second time you address me before I had a chance to respond to the first question.

Dunno. I remember that as a wizard I was ritualling (aka kill that had a chance of winning me the game if targeted at the correct person) every night and got busted by magic-sensing witches, while vigFlandre got by unnoticed until the end by, well, not killing. There's no guarantee the same thing will happen this game but that's as good a suspicion as any.

Jim/LNCP: that's some atrocious votecount formatting. Can you please keep static spaces between names, that are larger than a single symbol?

ZU, you seem unnaturally aggressive in your post directed at ONR. You wrote a single short post beforehand, and now you went and quoted four separate passages from Okami, ignoring everyone else. Isn't it too early to be tunneling?

ONR:

griffinpup - If you were an SK in this game, would you kill N1?

Oooh, let me guess how it goes. Either he answers yes and you accuse him of being an SK if there's a kill or he answers no and you accuse him of being an SK if there's no kill. If the opposite happens, you claim he's a SK intentionally doing the opposite of what he said he would. Am I right? Aw, you know I am right, don't you. What information did you hope to extract from his answer?

[notquitethere]

Okami

Deathsword, griffinpup, Leafsnail, notquitethere - All of you have posted.  None of you have voted.  Please explain why.

"Sûrement, Monsieur Fleury. I previously addressed everyone and zen you, and so was waiting for the answer from my first question before following up with a vote de pression. I had a further question. If you are an apprentice do you have a master here in the town?"

Okami and Leafsnail

Why did you choose to claim out of the gate, rather than raise the issue and let everyone discuss it?

@Anyone flavour claiming: why are you flavourclaiming

"Monsuiers! You must surely know by now what kind of situation we are in. Wanting to know the names and professions of our neighbours is essentiel to our investigations. Do you even want to find witches?"
[Evidence for this claim:]

This is a novel gametype that differs heavily in content and mechanics each time it is run. Here, it is all about immersion - you as players will not just take on roles but are given an opportunity to embody residents of a richly detailed, living and breathing world. The game rewards exploration and discovery, and allows players with an affinity for inference, investigation and analysis to shine. Though it is not impossible to play the game as any other, paying attention only to the core of Mafia, that is not the appeal of this setup - should you wish a hassle-free, streamlined setup for doing just that, you may wish to seek another thread.

In the previous two games there was a flavor cop (me, both times.)  In the first one I was able to out a dangerous third party by catching a fakeclaim of his.  Given the strong flavor links in the first games, I see absolutely no reason not to briefly flavor claim in this one, which is why I did so readily.

Toaster

NQT:  In the first game, IIRC all the out-of-towners were third party.  Are you non-town?

"A most interesting suggestion, Monsieur Petit. I am not, as you say, a "third party". I am a journeyman carpenter. But, alors! We must not rule out ze possibility of townsfolk sharing connections through similar circumstances. On zat note..."

Dariush, Deathsword, Zombie Urist
"I could not help but notice zat you are all in the clothes trade. Do any of you work closely together? Also, are any of you new to Uzès?"

Toony
"Lord Crussol, you are quite right in zat no one is above suspicion. No one, zat is, but the Pope. What is your problem with ze papacy?"

ZU

Female journeyman carpenter? Did those exist?

[Whether historical probable or not, that's what I am. If I was fakeclaiming I'd have picked something a bit less questionable, like midwife or male carpenter.]

Vector
"Please excuse the impertinence Madame veuve Bouvet, but was your husband's death witch-related?"

Griffinpup
"Monsieur Moreau, do you know if it is your tavern that Jean Petit [Toaster] has his vegetable wagon?"

[Ottofar]

I'm Mathieu Gendre, a journeyman stonemason

Ottofar: What is your favorite RVS question to ask someone and why is it your favorite?

Would you rather be a doctor or a vigilante? I'll tell you why, after you answer me.

Ottofar:  What would cause you to rely on flavor instead of traditional scumhunting to out scum?

There being no other leads to work on.

ZU

Female journeyman carpenter? Did those exist?

[Whether historical probable or not, that's what I am. If I was fakeclaiming I'd have picked something a bit less questionable, like midwife or male carpenter.]

This is heavily WIFOMy. Based on that, you starting the flavourclaiming without discussing it, voting people who try to question it and being a stranger I think I'll drop my vote on you. Notquitethere

Now, which player do you feel you know the best?
Which one do you not know at all?
Would you rather be a Jack of all Trades (1 of each roleblock, protect, kill, investigate) or a doctor, cop, vig or RB?

[notquitethere]

Ottofar

1. This is heavily WIFOMy. Based on that, 2. you starting the flavourclaiming without discussing it, 3. voting people who try to question it and 4. being a stranger I think I'll drop my vote on you. Notquitethere

5. Now, which player do you feel you know the best?
6. Which one do you not know at all?
7. Would you rather be a Jack of all Trades (1 of each roleblock, protect, kill, investigate) or a doctor, cop, vig or RB?

"Monsiuer Gendre, I feel your accusation lacks merit. I am a recent traveler in these parts, how could I be responsible for famines and deformation of children? As a fellow journeyman, have you not also traveled here from afar?"

[1. Hmm... I can see why you'd think it was was WIFOMmy: I didn't intend my response to be an argument that I couldn't possibly be fakeclaiming or somesuch, rather I was merely speaking truthfully, as an aside. Obviously I could still be fakeclaiming and lying about what I would or would not claim.

2. I think you'd be seriously misunderstanding the nature of the set up if you though that there was a good town-friendly reason not to claim our basic identities.

3. Leafsnail is now the only player that has actively refused to give a name and profession: a request so reasonable that everyone else, yourself included, did so immediately.

4. This makes no sense as a witch-hunting vote, as the problems in town were clearly stated to be long ongoing (famine, miscarriage) and so we're probably looking a long-term resident. Bear in mind as well that Toaster has claimed to be a farmer, which implies that he is also from out of town.

5. Do you mean as a player, or in this particular game? As a player, I've probably played with Tiruin the most times and so I have a familiarity with her style. She'll probably also do a bit of RP.

6. I don't have a clear idea in my mind of your style. I suppose we've played in one or two games together? I think I get you muddled with Okami or maybe Wuba because of the penguin avatar.

7. Lot of choice there. Guess I'd most like to be a doctor. They have the potential to consistently do the most immediate good.]


Toaster
"Monsiuer Petit, are you not also from out of town, as a farmer yourself?"

[Lenglon]

Ottofar: I'd prefer Vig, even when I've found scum I have trouble arguing my cases well, having a vigkill would allow me to bypass that problem if necessary.

[Leafsnail]

I didn't vote because I was on a dying phone and I have giant clumsy fingers.

I see little benefit to be gleaned from flavour claim town wise because the witches can be anyone, as made clear in the flavour.  On the other hand interesting town people would be more likely to have roles and would therefore be clear murder candidates for the scum.  Dariush's quoted passage doesn't suggest that claiming is a good idea at all.

[Leafsnail]

I meant Nqt, not Dariush.  More to follow.

[Leafsnail]

Okami No Rei: I don't see how you can call something you regard as a pro-town action scummy.  It just doesn't make sense from an honest perspective, and I'm pretty sure you were just hedging your bets as to whether the town would go along with the flavour claim or not.

[zombie urist]

NQT: Could you please stop using French and the ze thing? Its annoying to read.

Dariush, Deathsword, Zombie Urist
"I could not help but notice zat you are all in the clothes trade. Do any of you work closely together? Also, are any of you new to Uzès?"

Nope.

ZU, you seem unnaturally aggressive in your post directed at ONR. You wrote a single short post beforehand, and now you went and quoted four separate passages from Okami, ignoring everyone else. Isn't it too early to be tunneling?

ONR's post was pretty scummy and I didn't notice anyone else being scummy. Also I hoped to kick the game out of RVS.

Zombie Urist

This is vague.

Intentionally so.  Would you immediately reveal every aspect of your flavor just because I asked it of you?

Does the flavor mention where you grew up in?

Yes.

If so where does it say you grew up in?

I choose not to answer this question at this time.

Dunno. Why didn't you choose not to answer the question when NQT asked instead of being intentionally vague?

The question is less about the answer and more about seeing how you think about the answer.  With that in mind, are you content with the effort you put into your answer?

First part sounds like a BS excuse. Yes.

Griff, what happens if you try to drown a witch?

Well, in my experience, and assuming that they're only tied up and weighted, they get dropped in the lake and then proceed to untie their knots.  After they get undone, they have to swim underwater for a while until they find some reeds to breathe through to avoid being seen by the idiots attempting to drown a witch.

Why did you ask this question?

Every upstanding citizen knows that if you try to drown a witch, in a wooden tank and not in a lake (because that would be stupid), that she will use her magical powers to float. It is well known that witches float on water and as such you can easily discern her true nature by comparing her weight to that of other floating materials, such as ducks or wood. [/montypythonreference].

Why didn't you answer the above question.

[griffinpup]

Deathsword:

Griff, what happens if you try to drown a witch?

Well, in my experience, and assuming that they're only tied up and weighted, they get dropped in the lake and then proceed to untie their knots.  After they get undone, they have to swim underwater for a while until they find some reeds to breathe through to avoid being seen by the idiots attempting to drown a witch.

Why did you ask this question?

griffinpup - If you were an SK in this game, would you kill N1?  Would the alignment of D1's lynchee inform your decision whether or not to kill N1?

Whether I'd NK or not would depend on multiple factors, and the alignment of D1's lynchee would be one of those variables, yes.

Vector:
What's your preferred alignment and why?

Town.  Third-party is stressful and I've gotten real tired of playing scum.  With town, I feel more like I'm saving the day, being active, developing a technique.

And now, I'll use one of yours.  Why that question?

This piece of information will be useful as I look at the mood and tone of your posts throughout this game.  Of limited usefulness now, or course, and you asked this question. 

Deathsword, griffinpup, Leafsnail, notquitethere - All of you have posted.  None of you have voted.  Please explain why.

Because I forgot to include a vote in my original RVS questions. 

Griffinpup
"Monsieur Moreau, do you know if it is your tavern that Jean Petit [Toaster] has his vegetable wagon?"

Toaster is at an inn, not a tavern, Madam Pitre.  I am currently unaware of whether or not I have the licence to lodge travelers.  But I doubt so.  I'm am specifically a taverner, not an innkeeper.

NQT:

notquitethere - All my life, assuming the place I grew up in is actually in town (flavor is not specific).  Why did you choose to claim out of the gate, rather than raise the issue and let everyone discuss it?

Actually answer this question this time, NQT.  Why did you claim before discussing the issue?
Also, why are you RPing so heavily?
You have used it to deflect accusations and questions.

Toaster

NQT:  In the first game, IIRC all the out-of-towners were third party.  Are you non-town?

"A most interesting suggestion, Monsieur Petit. I am not, as you say, a "third party". I am a journeyman carpenter.

Being a journeyman carpenter doesn't mean you're not third party, but you act as if it does and hope that we assume so as well.
And you then go on to use your claimed role again as proof that you're not fake-claiming.

Female journeyman carpenter? Did those exist?

[Whether historical probable or not, that's what I am. If I was fakeclaiming I'd have picked something a bit less questionable, like midwife or male carpenter.]

[Vector]

My husband died of typhoid.  Everyone knows that witches are responsible for the foul diseases.

I am town in alignment, but I'm not from here originally; I've been in for about a year.  I don't think that the "born-and-raised" distinction is meaningful, though there may be other, similar flavortext clues.

Wait, was there a carpenter here?  I may have apprenticed my sons to you.

Griffinpup
"Monsieur Moreau, do you know if it is your tavern that Jean Petit [Toaster] has his vegetable wagon?"

I'd also like to remind everyone at this juncture of The Island of Doctor Moreau.

Ottofar: I'd prefer Vig, even when I've found scum I have trouble arguing my cases well, having a vigkill would allow me to bypass that problem if necessary.

Are you planning on attacking someone at any point, or are you ready to just hang back now?

ZU, you seem unnaturally aggressive in your post directed at ONR. You wrote a single short post beforehand, and now you went and quoted four separate passages from Okami, ignoring everyone else. Isn't it too early to be tunneling?

Why are you conflating tunneling and leaving RVS?

ZU

Female journeyman carpenter? Did those exist?

[Whether historical probable or not, that's what I am. If I was fakeclaiming I'd have picked something a bit less questionable, like midwife or male carpenter.]

This is heavily WIFOMy. Based on that, you starting the flavourclaiming without discussing it, voting people who try to question it and being a stranger I think I'll drop my vote on you. Notquitethere

How would you have liked NQT to respond?