Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vector]

If you truly empathize with your abuser and you want them to be happy, then you understand why they need you where you are and malleable.  And you understand yourself to be the valueless little shit you are, cut off from friends and family, utterly hopeless.  Or you understand their overwhelming retribution for minor faults as "appropriate," because that's how they see it.

For example, I traveled 3 hours standing on a train to see my boyfriend one day.  I have a bad back.  It was killing me.  I arrived 15 minutes late due to circumstances beyond my control (slow trains that day, something I could not have known about before boarding) and he was upset at me.  Angry!  He wouldn't hold my hand, because he had run down the hill (this takes about 15-20 minutes walking, FYI) in order to meet me on time and my actions reflected a "lack of equivalent investment in the relationship."  "Last time I'm ever running to meet you," he said.

Well.  I had been late, hadn't I?  Why shouldn't he punish me?  He did have to make sure I didn't do it again, to ensure that his feelings would be reciprocated!

[geronimo]

The focal point here is when zehive said he still wants Vienna to be his friend, regardless of the fact that she was "abusing" him. That actually takes quite a lot of commitment, it shows their strong bond and also the fact that they are very good friends, and if you were to think about it logically, there are reasons why the OP still feels connections for her regardless of the way he was treated. In fact saying that alone really stands out and resonates above everything else he has said, to me at least.

Now, if he hadn't said something like that it would be a different story altogether, in fact that was a very mature decision zehive, even though you probably meant having her as much more than a friend, I still applaud you with what you said, you have a very kind mind.

I met an American girl a few years back she fell in love with me and I with her. But she also loved someone else, her previous lover, and another guy and another. Of course this burned, but how could it move my love for her. Coming back home we had regular skype calls for 5 months, it was also very enjoyable, yet she still had love for others though she hailed mine above all.

Then came summer and I left for vacation for 2 weeks and on my return she told me she had a boyfriend, she pause my calls to talk to him, our calls became less frequent she claimed love but all I could see was a fire demon. But then it struck me, she was confused, in fact I had learned she ran away from home because of my leaving, she actually depended on me for her comfort, that much. Yet she could still get a boyfriend, love him, love me, love anyone else. It burned a lot at the time, but then it hit me, she did not actually want to hurt me, not answering, treating this new one the way she treated me, it felt absurd, and like she was something I don't wish to call her, but most importantly I realised she was emotionally immature. And zehive, thats what I believe Vienna is, emotionally immature, she doesn't mean to hurt you at all. Unfortunately, a lot of people are raised that way, and I pity your situation, she just can't make a decision.

Now, I have no idea what the world is coming to if someone is just expected to be abused, suck it up and leave. You should end a stronger man, suffering a bunch of pain and tears, will just be a waste otherwise or you will find yourself in this situation again, and so will Vienna to someone else. That is option 1, option 2 can be much, much better. Its like a playground bully you can suck it up and walk away and you would be fine, you'd just be another coward, fine. Now lets saythat playground bully was your best friend, you could suck it up and walk away, leaving your friend to suffer, and you suffered for no reason. To me that is BS by all means and I just cannot agree with it, so yes it is more than obviously immature to unfriend her, it helps noone, those scars are rubbed deeper into zehive's heart, not trusting anyone again, his heart will still skip a beat at the yell Vienna and the girl will also be an emotional wreck, if zehive can fix this he can fix this good.

He doesn't want to do remove her from his life, and thats reason enough to keep her, you aren't treating the girl as anything more than a slut, but I see her as a human being like us all

I took way too long to respond but I hope you haven't done anything that's worth regretting yet. Vector I still ask you to make a response to this, not only because I haven't had anyone willing to have an intelligent argument with me for a while, or for further philanthropy on this topic, but also for zehive's sake and for his ability to choose a path, also I would like to know why you told him otherwise.

Well can I atleast ask you what you think I should do? I havent done anything yet, all she seems to be is really concerned for me and that I don't care for her. But I havent done anything more or less than what I've been doing these last few days. You have a different perspective and I'm not sure if I 100% agree with not speaking to her seeing as it currently causes me a lot of pain, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts

Wow, sorry I missed your post. And your thread has gone to shambles, but thats exactly it, I cannot tell you what you should do, in this sort of scenario, I agree with not talking to her until figuring how she fits into your life, taking all the points I said into consideration. If you still do not understand please tell me.

[Darkmere]

Okay, the whole tranquil fury thing has passed.

That was not a mistyped sentence. You defended what you said, as you said it, twice. It's too late to backpedal on it now, sorry.

Here's why we are mad: Zehive is in a "Bad Place" where someone he is cares about is using how much he cares as a weapon against him. The solution is to get away from the person, so they can't use your emotions against yourself. Your solution is to stay in the same situation, which has been shown here to make things very difficult and painful. In short, you say the solution is to keep hurting. You are wrong.

EDIT: Ah, good. So now we're all in agreement on the "get the hell away from person" solution and can get back on track here. I'm glad we can move on.

[Pnx]

The reason everyone is reacting so badly to the idea of "You need to sympathise with them"... is because that sort of attitude is pretty much exactly how perpetuate a cycle of abuse.

[XXSockXX]

The reason everyone is reacting so badly is because someone is either playing a very infantile game here ("let's call her Vienna") or incredibly inexperienced in healthy human relationships (that skype-relationship story). And then advocating Stockholm Syndrome as a lifestyle.

Geronimo - I agree with Vector's sentiment that your contribution is contraproductive at best.

zehive - I think we have made our arguments, we can only give advice, you have to decide for yourself. I would advise you to choose an end with pain over pain without end.

[geronimo]

If you truly empathize with your abuser and you want them to be happy, then you understand why they need you where you are and malleable.  And you understand yourself to be the valueless little shit you are, cut off from friends and family, utterly hopeless.  Or you understand their overwhelming retribution for minor faults as "appropriate," because that's how they see it.

For example, I traveled 3 hours standing on a train to see my boyfriend one day.  I have a bad back.  It was killing me.  I arrived 15 minutes late due to circumstances beyond my control (slow trains that day, something I could not have known about before boarding) and he was upset at me.  Angry!  He wouldn't hold my hand, because he had run down the hill (this takes about 15-20 minutes walking, FYI) in order to meet me on time and my actions reflected a "lack of equivalent investment in the relationship."  "Last time I'm ever running to meet you," he said.

Well.  I had been late, hadn't I?  Why shouldn't he punish me?  He did have to make sure I didn't do it again, to ensure that his feelings would be reciprocated!

Thanks for sharing your story, I also hope zehive is reading these and understanding his standing a it better, but yes you empathize with them. No you do not kiss their bums. I draw a line right there and I think its time I got this down straight. If your boyfriend acts in your opinion like a dick, then fine. Empathizing with you abuser IS understanding what they are going through not what they did to you, its clearly why, and clearly sucking up everything they throw at you is not the correct response, having no malleability is NOT what I mean either. And exactly you get exactly what it means by dictionary definition of empathizing but not in practice, understanding what he's doing and why he's doing something is right does not make it right from another perspective, and to me, thats where you should fit in.

I also think understanding how you want them to fit into your life is very important as well.

Now to me what empathizing is or what I mean by empathizing is, is to understand him, his situation, his mindset, and what he's going through. Can you truly say letting him get mad at you for something as simple as that what's best for him. No. But what if instead he was to change for the better and be able to empathize with you, he obviously doesn't understand what you're going through if he's going to get mad at you for coming late after spending three bloody hours on a train just to meet him.

[geronimo]

The reason everyone is reacting so badly is because someone is either playing a very infantile game here ("let's call her Vienna") or incredibly inexperienced in healthy human relationships (that skype-ralationship story). And then advocating Stockholm Syndrome as a lifestyle.

Geronimo - I agree with Vector's sentiment that you contribution is contraproductive at best.

zehive - I think we have made our arguments, we can only give advice, you have to decide for yourself. I would advise you to choose an end with pain over pain without end.

I don't expect you to completely understand what I am saying here, but what I can say is at least zehive can think about something from a non one sided perspective. If the OP personally asks me to step out of this discussion then I will, but I believe there is alot of useful content for him here. I don't see any of you as any less for arguing with me or disagreeing with my points, but I do not agree with you, and actually believe zehive will face his own fare share of "unhealthy" relationships going down your path. I clearly have nothing to gain here, I am sharing my thoughts in an attempt to help someone else, I don't ever think someone should be banned for that.

[Vector]

Yes, what IF my love were able to change the two fuckwads I dated?  My god!  I think I'll go write a book about that.  I'll call the guy "Biff," perhaps.

[geronimo]

Yes, what IF my love were able to change the two fuckwads I dated?  My god!  I think I'll go write a book about that.  I'll call the guy "Biff," perhaps.

My attmpts to relate to you have to go up in smoke with comedy, you aren't trying to understand this guys position and will basically change this guys life with unthought words.

[Vector]

It's either comedy or go have a panic attack.  I prefer making fun of you and your unrealistic expectations.

I am SO concerned with the men who gaslit and threatened to hit me right now.  Boy.  Really concerned about those fuckers' well-being, and their well-equipped friend networks, and their good-paying jobs.  And their lack of PTSD.  I feel soooo sorry for them.

[geronimo]

It's either comedy or go have a panic attack.  I prefer making fun of you and your unrealistic expectations.

I am SO concerned with the men who gaslit and threatened to hit me right now.  Boy.  Really concerned about those fuckers' well-being, and their well-equipped friend networks, and their good-paying jobs.  And their lack of PTSD.  I feel soooo sorry for them.

Well then I'd prefer you make fun of me, having a panic attack is not what I'd want you to do.But do make fun of me after you try to understand. Feeling sorry for them is a choice, I could never expect you to do that in that situation, at all, believe me. Because of how you look at it, but can I ask you, would you be satisfied living your life as one of those dicks, would you change lives with them and why?

[Vector]

No.  Because they're cowards and narcissists lacking in moral fiber, which is far more important than whether or not you can sleep at night.  They may be happier than I am, but I'm right.

:I

You can see my beautiful personality on display right here.

[geronimo]

No.  Because they're cowards and narcissists lacking in moral fiber, which is far more important than whether or not you can sleep at night.  They may be happier than I am, but I'm right.

:I

You can see my beautiful personality on display right here.

Hahaha,

I'm tired, I'll talk to all of you tommorow. Zehive I hope this turns out best for you buddy, and that our ramblings and arguments also made sense

[Darkmere]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, riddle me this one:

Girl and I had been friends for years. 3 months after she broke up with her ex, we start hanging out more, and she admits to still stalking her ex, but claims to be interested in me. I keep my distance but we eventually end up fooling around (second base, for later reference). The next morning she calls her ex, from my place, in front of me, to tell him we had sex. The best I can come up with is, she either wanted to punish me for having issues, or she wanted to punish him using me and just didn't care that I knew I was being used.

Care to fix that with your empathy? Coz... well if you honestly try to justify treating someone like that, willfully, then I have nothing else for you.

ninja'd... Well.. he left. I'm... not really sad, but I'm leaving this up anyway. Zehive, don't let people do this to you, because that sure as hell sounds like what I went through and it took me more than a year to think I might be worth something better. You are worth something better. EVERYONE deserves to be treated better than that.

Edit: Upon reflection, I'm at least going to spoiler that. I feel kinda awkward having it be right there and the thread just... dying... and the awkward silence. I do mean what I say, and from what I can tell, it does seem to be a situation that needs distance, so I stand by what the rest of us have been saying.

[Shakerag]

I find myself wondering how this situation would have played out if our society wasn't so balls-to-the-wall about monogamy.