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[Okami No Rei]

Griffionday

Okami:
Do you have a preferred shortening or is Okami fine?

My preferred shortening is Crisco brand, and I am indeed a fine individual.

It could just be that it's very late over here, but how does the linked post demonstrate that Max White is town?  I probably had to be there, but I'm not seeing what MW's assumption was that he wouldn't have were he scum.  Could you clarify a bit further?

He didn't know that scum are an informed minority, or that they have a scumchat.


borno

Okami No Rei:
It is D1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two play styles you are debating over using, a slightly more lurky playstyle to avoid attention, or a more active play style in which you are more likely to slip up. Which one do you choose?

Well, whether I have a power role doesn't enter the equation.  I prefer the active playstyle since I like the higher risk and it gives me a chance to exercise my linguistic prowess.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, RL circumstance prevents me from adopting said style, Town or Scum, in any of my current games.  That'll have to wait until things slow down at work.

swordsmith04

Heh. I'm not exactly Legendary at either, but I'm hoping I won't sound like a complete idiot. Killing people doesn't help me, even if I could make a sword capable of cutting something. More people there are to dig, the better, obviously.

I see.  By that logic, we shouldn't lynch anyone either.  If you had a Vig-kill, would you kill for information, in the absence of suspicion?

Okami No Rei, same to you. Why haven't you questioned anyone else yet? (Besides me, I mean.)

I've been busy.

Anyone who wants to answer a hypothetical question: This is a simple thing I’m curious about. I won’t expect an answer though as it’s not too relevant. You can stop reading now: Day 4 and no night kills have occurred. How do you react? All players are fairly active.

I'd start scanning old posts, looking for a change in behavior, since we clearly have a cult on our hands, rather than generic mafia.  That or it's an all Town bastard game.  If we're definitely in a game without a cult or a bastard mechanic, well, I'd say we've got a damn skilled doctor or the Mafia is playing stupid and not using their kill in order to promote WiFoM.  In your hypothetical situation, have we lynched generic Mafia before?  How many players?

Okami No Rei: I’ve also seen you around… Who do you feel is the biggest threat in this game if they were a scum?

Spectr - He's posting at the happy medium between coming under fire for lurking or posting too much and accidentally dropping a tell.

Who would be the biggest boon as town?

Griffionday - Knows what he's doing as far as scumhunting goes.

I’m curious as to your reads on the other players so far.

Griffionday - Town
RangerCado - Town
borno - I agree with Griffionday's points thus far.
Imperial Guardsman - Org, but without the piercing insights.  Likely to succumb to LAL.  Null-read.
swordsmith04 - Town
Spectr - Townish

[Griffionday]

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

[Imperial Guardsman]

What is ORG and LAL?

[swordsmith04]

Okami No Rei:

swordsmith04

Heh. I'm not exactly Legendary at either, but I'm hoping I won't sound like a complete idiot. Killing people doesn't help me, even if I could make a sword capable of cutting something. More people there are to dig, the better, obviously.

I see.  By that logic, we shouldn't lynch anyone either.  If you had a Vig-kill, would you kill for information, in the absence of suspicion?

If I was a vig and didn't have any idea who the remaining scum were, and there was enough information to be gained from it whether the player flipped scum or town, then yes, I would. This is assuming most or all of the town is stuck, not just myself.


Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight, I would guess.
And you didn't answer my question.

[Teneb]

MOD: how much time until the deadline? Also votecount please.

Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight, I would guess.
And you didn't answer my question.

Nor has he answered mine.

{Imperial Guardsman, PLEASE don't be Org 2, it's not fun for anyone}

My advice is to try to be your level best and not mention that it's your first game, learn from where you're not doing so great and do better on your next game.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

SwordSmith: Lurking to fly under the radar... You'll be under it until someone notices, then they'll be questioning you extensively until you state some reads. Why do you think lurking helps you go unnoticed?

Out of sight, out of mind. If a player isn't posting much or at all, most people generally tend to forget about them. A lurker also has less material to examine, so there's less to get a read off of. Seems like a fairly good early game tactic for RVS, if you can shake the suspicion later on.


Imperial Guardsman: You're a vanilla townie on day 3 and everyone else has roleclaimed. No one has claimed a town power-role. One scum is still in play; the lynched scum had no role. What do you claim to be? What if someone had claimed cop? (Explain your choices, please.)

RangerCado, same scenario as IG's, but you're the solitary scum, instead. What would you claim? How would being a roleblocker or godfather affect your decision?

Fakedit: I'll vote for that Extension as well, then.

Why the RVS questions when we are out of RVS? Haven you seen nothing you consider scummy or worthy of questioning?

[Scelly9]

Griffionday (1) -- borno
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (2) -- Spectr, Deathsword
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, swordsmith04, Nerjin, Griffionday

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 41 hours remaining.

[Griffionday]

Mod, I currently am not voting for anyone.

I unvoted here.

[Scelly9]

Eh? What are you talking about, I did nothing! *shiftyeyes*

[RangerCado]

Scelly edited! What are you hiding!?!? 

[Remuthra]

((No edits, Scelly! You get modkilled!))

[swordsmith04]

Why the RVS questions when we are out of RVS? Haven you seen nothing you consider scummy or worthy of questioning?

I kind of just stopped asking questions when Griffionday started questioning me. I didn't mean to do that, but I could barely put responses together at that point*, let alone asking questions as well. I'm just making up lost time now. Griffionday seems to be doing a good job, and a 'BTW I vote borno too' is just scummy. I picked two of the players I was less sure of and asked them a random question as an opener. We've got almost two days left in D1, plenty of time for me to pick a target and vote. Also, when did RVS end?

*I caught what I like to call 'mafia-itis', since it timed itself so perfectly. Coughing, sneezing, sore throat, fever, headache, a bit of vomiting on sunday and monday morning, etc. It's cleared up a bit, now, so I should be fine in a day or two.

[Griffionday]

Also, when did RVS end?

RVS ends when you have reads you want to pursue.  It's a bit suspicious if you're a good deal later at developing reads than everyone else, as that indicates you're having difficulty being paranoid, which is the natural state of town.

[RangerCado]

From what i've seen, RVS usually ends after about 24-36 hours when everyone has answered about 3 different questions and you start investigating wording, reasons, and why someone has suddenly gone after another. Also, Borno, where are you man? You've been gone for over 30 hours.

[Okami No Rei]

Griffionday

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

You accused him of playing lazily early on, which indicates he doesn't care about his scumhunting (Scum read).  His replies since you started pushing him strike me as nervous and overwrought.  He's getting defensive, as in scum scrambling to answer defensive.    I can't point to anything in particular, it's simply the overall tone I gather from this post and this one.


swordsmith04

If I was a vig and didn't have any idea who the remaining scum were, and there was enough information to be gained from it whether the player flipped scum or town, then yes, I would. This is assuming most or all of the town is stuck, not just myself.

Could you provide an example situation where you think this would be the case?


Imperial Guardsman - swordsmith04 nailed it in one:

Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight.

Org also stands with webadict as one of the two players on this board on whom one can safely and successfully push a D1 policy lynch. 
His posts generally consist of one to five words, he rarely quotes, and he's fond of all-caps.

The way you play is similar.  This is frustrating for Town, because we need you to show us that you are, in fact, not scum, so we don't have to waste a lynch on you.  We need more from you than just "Vote [player].  He seems scummy."  If we don't know why you think someone is scummy, we can't decide whether we agree, and, as suspicious scum-hunters, we have to assume you have some ulterior motive if you're not going to provide reasons.

That said, why aren't you voting anyone?  Who do you suspect most right now?

[borno]

Griffionday:

Thanks for helping my case.

How am I applying pressure to you again?

'Overeacting', as you put it, is essentially attacking someone after they attacked you. Which applies pressure.

They're not being stupid for the fun of it, they're stupid to get scum to slip up. And I don't see what you're saying, RVS is the best time to do it, since it's the time where there are no reads

Could you give me an example of where being stupid has successfully caught a scum?

Well, there's BM IV for one. Read MagmaDeath's gambit at the end; he managed to out both scum, but he was lynched anyway from good play from the mafia. I chose that example because it was a BM like the one we're in now.

No, I'm not attempting to hunt badly, I just can't hunt well. Obviously when it comes down to the lynching I'll have refined my case and made sure everything was in order.

This could be a difference in play-style type thing, and this is actually a part of the game I've very little experience with, but shouldn't your pressure argument evolve into your lynch argument and not require a complete reworking?

Yeah? I'd refine it, not reform it.

Hahaha no.
Firstly, yup, I agree it was originally a weak case. No, I don't agree with your other points.
Secondly, are you saying you're treating me with contempt instead of actually engaging in civilised conversation with me? Wow.
Thirdly, overeacting? I think you're missing the point of RVS. Actually, I'll spell it out for you, since you can't seem to comprehend it yourself. In RVS, you have no reads on anyone. In RVS, you jump on any chance you have to gain reads on someone. In RVS, calling someone out for voting badly is wrong because RVS stands for RANDOM vote stage. My case against you at the start was barely anything. That's because I HAD barely anything. I hope I cleared a few things up for you.

To your first point: yeah, so how did you expect me to react to it?  I in part took offence because you

To your second point: I'm admitting that I did precisely that for the first post.  Like I mentioned before your case on me is much better now, and I'm actually sort of enjoying this in a weird way.  It's an interesting perspective to be on the wrong side of a pressure campaign. 

To your third point, I leave the following without further comment:

Unvote
RangerCado:
Is that all you have for RVS? A single question which was someone else's turned around? Seems like lazy mafia to me. Anyway, I would probably kill the lurker in this situation, as trying to discern who is mafia through the NKs in complete WIFOM and is discouraged by the ICs.

I was doing exactly what I said I was doing in my third point. Jumping on any opportunity possible. How exactly does this excuse you from commenting?

And about me confusing my terminology, there's no-one confused here about terminology but yourself. I think that you should probably read it yourself before you give it to people and further incriminate yourself.

Nope, still pretty sure I'm less confused about the terminology than you, although that's a petty fight we really should have asked the IC's about ages ago.

Good idea.
I do think that you've answered all of my questions well though, and I'm getting a bit of a townish vibe from you. I think I'll Unvote. Time to find another target!

Okami No Rei:

Griffionday

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

You accused him of playing lazily early on, which indicates he doesn't care about his scumhunting (Scum read).  His replies since you started pushing him strike me as nervous and overwrought.  He's getting defensive, as in scum scrambling to answer defensive.    I can't point to anything in particular, it's simply the overall tone I gather from this post and this one.

Nervous and Overwrought? Nah, I'd say more like angry and bitter. But don't worry, I've taken my pills I'm feeling better now.

On a more serious note though, are you saying that because Griffionday accused me of playing lazily indicates that I don't care about my scum hunting? What the hell? I love my scumhunting thank you very much! I've said this at least twice, but I'll tell you a third time. I am not lazy, I have bad cases because strong cases don't magically appear in RVS stage. Will you at least take the time to read over my posts before making a case on me?

And don't worry about past me's tone, I've made arrangements to have him dead.
RangerCado:

From what i've seen, RVS usually ends after about 24-36 hours when everyone has answered about 3 different questions and you start investigating wording, reasons, and why someone has suddenly gone after another. Also, Borno, where are you man? You've been gone for over 30 hours.

I feel special. You miss me being gone for 30 hours when other people have been gone for the whole game but you don't care.

Lastly, Everyone:
If everyone could present their reads, that would be grand. Here are mine:

Griffionday: Seems towny, answers questions and generally helps with the scum hunting. A bit Defensive though

Nerjin: More of a null-read on, hasn't really posted much

RangerCado: Null read, leaning a little town

Deathsword: Also null, doesn't seem to have done much so far

Swordsmith: Leaning town, gives good questions and thorough answers, if sometimes incorrect

Okami: Slightly scummy, rather verbose and lurky (RL issues)

IG: Slightly scummy, lazy, lurks, active lurking although he says he hates active lurking