Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RangerCado]

Okay, not sleep deprieved and all my other games are in night mode so lets get this done.

Griff: A mafia member chasing after their partner has always been a distraction technique. If they flipped scum, try looking through their cases for someone they let off the hook a couple times for less than acceptable reasons. (i sound like an IC but my logic is probably flawed somewhere)

Borno: Your the cop night 2 and you've got 2 people you want to investigate. One helped lynch a mafia day 1 but hasn't provided too much to the discussion after this occurence, while the other lynched the Doctor day 2 but made several good points about others attitudes and voting. Who would you investigate and what do you think the alignment of the other might be?

Sword: Trying to get the lower skill level smoke screen to work, doesn't help... at all... EVER. All it does is draw attention to yourself further, and make you look scummy. Why does it seem like your trying to get us to overlook you?

Scelly: Are we being allowed a last post if we die as long as no information is given? (like a "well played guys, see ya next game.") Just want to find out as i see it in other games sometimes.

[Scelly9]

Yes. However said post may not include game info. (Tells, suspicions, night actions, ect.)

[Griffionday]

borno:

Why have you decided to only ask Nerjin questions about asking everyone a question in RVS, even though I did it too?

Four reasons really: His questions feel more like he knows how to collect reads on people and is going about doing that efficiently so as I want to learn how to do it he'd be the person to ask.  His question actually forced me to think for a minute or two and actually consider which I consider more powerful.  And his hypothetical question was actually fun to play with in my head for ten or so minutes.  Yours took maybe ten seconds to come up with an answer to.
Second, he's the IC so questions that are bordering on "how do I play this game" I feel are better asked to them.  Although I will freely admit that this puts them in an easy place to hide if they're scum. 
Third: Please take a moment and compare your eight questions to Nerjin's.  Notice anything slightly different about the questions?  That's right, Nerjin actually asked eight different questions.  You on the other hand ask one question eight different ways.  That's fine I'm sure; but it would help if that question could get you actual reads on people which I don't see as happening right now.  (please note that your current case on me is based on my interaction with Nerjin, not you)
The fourth? Well that partly answers your next question.

Are you doing what you said earlier, attacking your scumpartner so that you look like you've distanced yourself from him?

Who are you referring to as my scumbuddy?

I'm seriously confused here.  Your sentence reads like you're referring to me distancing myself from Nerjin.  Because I'm asking him questions.  Questions that, if I were using them to apply pressure, would be blatant softballling (which, yes, is an actual tell).  This is the fourth reason why I'm asking Nerjin and not you: Nerjin has a reason to answer the questions in a way that I can learn from for future games, you would have a bloody good reason to think that I'm budding you for a lynch if I flip scum.

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

You would dismiss a case held by scum because the mafia aren't exactly a trustworthy source.

Two things: There is always the case to be made that scum have to play well, at our level they will be doing their best to be a townie.  This means they will be doing proper scum hunting no?  We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.  Now yes both of these can be abused by scum, but to dismiss their cases without at least looking through them with the knowledge that they are scum is to do a disservice to the town as a scum hunter.

There is about 50/50 chance of mafia attacking their scumbuddy or a random person.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that that is WAY better odds than the rest of us have.

Sure, you could start up a new case against them, but it isn't good to use a proven mafia's case against someone.

Yes but looking through the mafia's cases is not a waste of time.

Remember Nuke in cult mafia? He did it except in reverse and got the guy lynched. I'd bet that if he were to be lynched before Daruish his case would of disappeared, and Daruish wouldn't have been lynched.

Before I call you an idiot for misreading the interations in that very interesting game I must point out that someone in that game disagreed with your case, and seems to have agreed with mine.  Nuke was asked to be prodded by NativeForeigner who was a townie.  Meaning even as confirmed scum NF thought that Nuke would have something to add to the conversation.

Now that that's out of the way I must ask; why are you being such an idiot?  You are reading the interactions in that game completely wrong, to the point where I'm sure you literally couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  Nuke was acting VERY scummy, by that point everyone knew he was scum.  He was also buddying Daruish like crazy which is why Daruish was lynched.  NOT because Nuke created a decent case against him.  OF COURSE Daruish would have still been lynched if Nuke flipped scum; for all intents and purposes he already had.  The only reason Nuke was not lynched first was because the setup meant that killing the leader was the most important goal.

So I have a question for you: Why did you read me asking instructive questions to the IC as "distancing myself from him because he's obviously my scum partner"?

[Griffionday]

EBWOP

We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.

Sorry about that; I meant to say that the person that the scum let off should be looked into.

[borno]

Griffionday:

borno:

Third: Please take a moment and compare your eight questions to Nerjin's.  Notice anything slightly different about the questions?  That's right, Nerjin actually asked eight different questions.  You on the other hand ask one question eight different ways.  That's fine I'm sure; but it would help if that question could get you actual reads on people which I don't see as happening right now.  (please note that your current case on me is based on my interaction with Nerjin, not you)

Actually, I was asking 8 different scenarios to 8 different people. The variety of the questions are not the main focus of RVS, you should know that. In fact, I could have asked the same question to everyone and still gotten the answer I wanted. Because just because the same question has been asked does not necessarily mean that I will get the same answer for every single person. Lastly: Even if your interaction with the mod was scummy I would be suspicious. You ever heard of tunnelling? Chainsawing? OMGUSing? Yeah. You could do those to someone but everyone else would still be suspicious.

Are you doing what you said earlier, attacking your scumpartner so that you look like you've distanced yourself from him?

Who are you referring to as my scumbuddy?

I'm seriously confused here.  Your sentence reads like you're referring to me distancing myself from Nerjin.  Because I'm asking him questions.  Questions that, if I were using them to apply pressure, would be blatant softballling (which, yes, is an actual tell).  This is the fourth reason why I'm asking Nerjin and not you: Nerjin has a reason to answer the questions in a way that I can learn from for future games, you would have a bloody good reason to think that I'm budding you for a lynch if I flip scum.

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

You would dismiss a case held by scum because the mafia aren't exactly a trustworthy source.

Two things: There is always the case to be made that scum have to play well, at our level they will be doing their best to be a townie.  This means they will be doing proper scum hunting no?  We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.  Now yes both of these can be abused by scum, but to dismiss their cases without at least looking through them with the knowledge that they are scum is to do a disservice to the town as a scum hunter.

But if they were to be given a choice between making a case on their partner or a VT, would they attack their partner and bring attention to him and possibly make him slip, or would they choose the random townie and, if successful in lynching, be one step closer to victory? Hmm, I really have no idea. I did word my case badly though, what I meant is that you shouldn't lynch someone just because a mafioso attacked them.

There is about 50/50 chance of mafia attacking their scumbuddy or a random person.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that that is WAY better odds than the rest of us have.

And I'd like to take a moment to point out that those odds are NOT accurate. It depends on the situation, and while yeah, if the mafia attack one another and one gets lynched then they'll be perceived as town by others, bussing your partner while you're about to be lynched is not a very good tactic. Most mafia aren't willing going to go out of their way to attack each other if they can otherwise help it.

Remember Nuke in cult mafia? He did it except in reverse and got the guy lynched. I'd bet that if he were to be lynched before Daruish his case would of disappeared, and Daruish wouldn't have been lynched.

Before I call you an idiot for misreading the interations in that very interesting game I must point out that someone in that game disagreed with your case, and seems to have agreed with mine.  Nuke was asked to be prodded by NativeForeigner who was a townie.  Meaning even as confirmed scum NF thought that Nuke would have something to add to the conversation.

Now that that's out of the way I must ask; why are you being such an idiot?  You are reading the interactions in that game completely wrong, to the point where I'm sure you literally couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  Nuke was acting VERY scummy, by that point everyone knew he was scum.  He was also buddying Daruish like crazy which is why Daruish was lynched.  NOT because Nuke created a decent case against him.  OF COURSE Daruish would have still been lynched if Nuke flipped scum; for all intents and purposes he already had.  The only reason Nuke was not lynched first was because the setup meant that killing the leader was the most important goal.

Hmm, I'll agree that I did use a bad example. I had read it some time ago and I had forgotten what really happened.
Anyway, I will say that that's a bit of an over reaction. Calling me an idiot because I had used a bad example? Really? It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game, and you seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

So I have a question for you: Why did you read me asking instructive questions to the IC as "distancing myself from him because he's obviously my scum partner"?

Oh yeah. I almost forgot the last thing about your case on me being an absolute idiot with no mental capabilities at all: It's the RVS stage. I had strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some. I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him. But instead of calmly and collectedly explaining the faults in my case you decide to beat me over the head with it.

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

[borno]

EBWODP:
RangerCado:

Borno: Your the cop night 2 and you've got 2 people you want to investigate. One helped lynch a mafia day 1 but hasn't provided too much to the discussion after this occurence, while the other lynched the Doctor day 2 but made several good points about others attitudes and voting. Who would you investigate and what do you think the alignment of the other might be?

I'd probably investigate the mafia lyncher first, because he could have just been bussing his partner, and he is acting more scummy than the other by not posting. The other is probably town, since there is no way a mafia could have known who the doctor was so early, and if he was lynched then that would of meant that the whole town found him scummy, so it would be the doctor's fault for being scummy rather than the lyncher's fault for lynching him.

[Griffionday]

Lastly: Even if your interaction with the mod was scummy I would be suspicious. You ever heard of tunnelling? Chainsawing? OMGUSing? Yeah. You could do those to someone but everyone else would still be suspicious.

Yep, I've heard of them.  Although I've not seen where tunnelling is a scum tell, I've always thought of it as a null tell.

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

I think it was more the juxtaposition here that caused me to think they were softball questions rather than the actual questions.

It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game.

If I were building a case against you I would have called you something other than idiot.

You seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

What was your case really about, a inconsistency in how I was treating you vs. Nerjin?

I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him. But instead of calmly and collectedly explaining the faults in my case you decide to beat me over the head with it.

Calling you an idiot was pushing it, for that I apologize.  I'm not used to cases being thrown my way that all parties involved know are rubbish, so I may have over-reacted a bit.

I had [no?] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some.

Ironically proving my point about your questions not being the greatest in the world.

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

Actually this seems to say you do.  I think it's just over-reacting if you're not building a case/voting for them.

[swordsmith04]

Swordsmith:

'Important' and 'useful' are practically synonyms in this case. As for whether N1 is still the least important, yes, I think so. Early game, there's less information to discern the scum. An additional town-member at that time is only another theory. Later in the game, there's more possible evidence, more chances for the scum to slip up have occurred, etc. Another town member at that point might mean the difference between a town and a scum victory.

But wouldn't a blocked scum kill at any point provide the town with one more member for each successive night as well as another pair of eyes to pour over the tells in the thread?  Thus wouldn't it make sense that the doctor is more important N1 when he can keep the scum from offing the best hunters?

Depends on the town, but if one player was on to me, the rest probably wouldn't be far behind.

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

You seem awfully concerned that your scum game isn't up to snuff.  Nervous about this game or trying to make us complacent?

Yes, but there is more to look for later in the game. I didn't say the doctor shouldn't use his protect N1, just that its successful use - and the extra player it provides - was more important in the later game. If you disagree, that's fine by me.
I seem concerned about my scum game because that's what everyone's questions are about. If you'd asked me about my town game instead, I'd be just as concerned. I'm nervous because this is my first mafia game and I don't want to screw up and waste a day. As you've picked up on, I don't consider myself very good at anything with a 'social game'. Part of the reason I'm even playing this game is so I can get better at things like that.

Sword: Trying to get the lower skill level smoke screen to work, doesn't help... at all... EVER. All it does is draw attention to yourself further, and make you look scummy. Why does it seem like your trying to get us to overlook you?

Scelly: Are we being allowed a last post if we die as long as no information is given? (like a "well played guys, see ya next game.") Just want to find out as i see it in other games sometimes.

I'm not trying to get you to overlook me. If I'm coming off that way, I apologize. If I was trying to avoid attention, though, I'd be lurking... not unlike Okami No Rei. Can we get a prod, mod?

Oh, and as for the 'bah' post, this is from the OP:

Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.

[Griffionday]

Swordsmith:

You seem awfully concerned that your scum game isn't up to snuff.  Nervous about this game or trying to make us complacent?

Yes, but there is more to look for later in the game. I didn't say the doctor shouldn't use his protect N1, just that its successful use - and the extra player it provides - was more important in the later game. If you disagree, that's fine by me.
I seem concerned about my scum game because that's what everyone's questions are about. If you'd asked me about my town game instead, I'd be just as concerned. I'm nervous because this is my first mafia game and I don't want to screw up and waste a day. As you've picked up on, I don't consider myself very good at anything with a 'social game'. Part of the reason I'm even playing this game is so I can get better at things like that.

Fair enough for now.  Unvote  My advice is to try to be your level best and not mention that it's your first game, learn from where you're not doing so great and do better on your next game.
Also: weekends count as zero time, so Okami is still int the green.

[borno]

It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game.

If I were building a case against you I would have called you something other than idiot.
[/quote]
No, you were building a case on how my case was trash.

You seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

What was your case really about, a inconsistency in how I was treating you vs. Nerjin?
[/quote]
My case was really about a pressure vote to see your reply. Then I probably would have moved my vote somewhere else had this not happened.

I had [no] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some.

Ironically proving my point about your questions not being the greatest in the world.
[/quote]
What's this? Are you really saying that you can instantly find out who is the mafia from RVS questions?

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

Actually this seems to say you do.  I think it's just over-reacting if you're not building a case/voting for them.
[/quote]
This isn't Mafiascum you realise?

[Scelly9]

Spectr and Okami No Rei have been prodded.

[Spectr]

Spectr: You’re scum and have been playing very well. Your partner… not so much. He’s dropping tells left and right. How do you react?

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

[Griffionday]

No, you were building a case on how my case was trash.

It was ill put together and referenced materials you obviously hadn't read in a while; so yeah it was.  What should I have treated it as?  I react very poorly to people who seem to be being deliberately stupid, such as building a case that was awful.  So yeah I over-reacted to it; that is something that I need to work on, both here and in real life.  But please for the love of all that you hold dear, don't present me a case that is just plain idiotic (like you did with your opening pressure vote).  I will add though, your current case is a much better built one, and a far more interesting conversation to have; so thank you for that.

Are you really saying that you can instantly find out who is the mafia from RVS questions?

I'm saying thoughtful questions are more likely to provoke answers that will reflect the mindsets of the players than questions that are all the same.  So you don't have to go to the top of the list again when trying to get reads on people.

This isn't Mafiascum you realise?

I've never played a game there, and that is the wiki that is referenced for noobs to brush up on the lingo.  Also here seems to echo that definition; and even our very own Imperial Guardsman shares that definition.  Could you please tell me where you're finding that OMGUS = Over reacting?  (Yes they're both scum tells, probably around equal weight really, but they are not the same.)

While you're at it, could you describe what you meant by tunneling being suspicious?  Thanks.

Spectr

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

No worries, work comes first of course.  Now that you're back though do you have plans to start hunting?

[Spectr]

Spectr

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

No worries, work comes first of course.  Now that you're back though do you have plans to start hunting?

Yes, sorry if I'm not terribly good as of yet. This is a bit different than what I am used to.

Imperial Guardsman, Could you expand on the question I asked of you earlier;

Imperial Guardian when trying to find scum what are the telltale signs you look for?

Active lurking ( trying to look active )
Bandwagoning ( voting just because that person has the most votes }
OMGUS ( voting because the person voted you )

Specifically, why are those the signs you look for, and what makes them different than many other scum-tells.

[RangerCado]

This Day 1 is a lot more relaxed than Webs... It feels nice to have the change.

Borno: The quoting in your previous post looks like it got butchered. Please try to avoid that, my head was spinning. Also, why is tunneling suspicious? It can be unhelpful in the long run, but it can also get you a good read on a possible scum. Weighing the pros and cons as it were.

SwordSmith: Lurking to fly under the radar... You'll be under it until someone notices, then they'll be questioning you extensively until you state some reads. Why do you think lurking helps you go unnoticed?

Imperial: Active lurking can usually be associated with RL stuff so its not that big a scum tell. BandWagoning is a good one to look out for but can often be unintentional. OMGUSing can be justified if their are blatant flaws in the voting persons logic that others also see.UNVOTE Not a lot for me too go on here, except for Borno. He seems to be overreacting in his butchered quote post (please use the preview button guys) bordering on the line of anger or just sheer annoyance. And why the mafiascum reference? Mafia lingo can be applied from any source as long as the majority understand the meaning. And sugesting that someone can find all of the scum from RVS seems ridiculous to me. (it should have been worded better really)

 Thats all i have for now, ask me any questions you want and i'll get back to you in about 20 minutes or so.