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Author Topic: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?  (Read 11003 times)

Ghazkull

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Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« on: April 02, 2013, 04:11:07 am »

So i recently fired up Crusader Kings 2 again and as so often i tried to turn Norway back to Norse religion.
 As i played i suddenly came to the Question, how the hell did this happen in the first place?
Why did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
I mean i know it came with Israelite Slaves to Rome, but how did it go onwards from there? Why and how did the Roman Empire turn from Nero's "Lets burn and crucify some Christians for shits and giggles" to Roman Emperors abolishing the Roman Pantheon and instating Christianism?
How did it go on from there? Shouldn't Christianism have gone down together with the West Roman Empire?

So i thought i post all these questions here and ask some of you guys because i know that many of you are pretty well read and learned in Historical Matters. However i'd like to keep this discussion free of any Religious Fundamental Discussions. Let's not let that Thread devolve into which Religion is the best and attract the Ire of Toady.
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Max White

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 04:22:50 am »

Because the Christians are Gods Chosentm and they will march upon the earth and lay slaughter to all who oppose gods will. Let no newborn be spared the fury, for all will perish in the flames leaving only a utopia of peace, harmony and creationism.
Do not run, non-believers, for god sees all, and there is nowhere to run to. We will find you, and we will trial you, and there will be no defense.



So what do you think, Passion of the Christ 2: The Passioning. Will it sell?

Ghazkull

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 04:30:51 am »

*sighs* really now?

This was a honest question, i was curious about how it went down. So could you please just keep it civilized and mature?
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Max White

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 04:34:54 am »

Well, the answer is the kind of thing people write their thesis about. You think a single forum post is going to really properly address the answer? There are a ton of cultural factors that lead to theological change in history, from very open warfare and religious prosecution, to the fact that some faiths are just more appealing to some people.

Crabnumber

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 04:42:13 am »

Likely one of the most major reasons has to do with the Roman emperor, Constantine I, making the Roman Empire a predominantly christian empire, going so far as to modify some of the great olden Roman architecture into symbols of christianity, instead of the old pagan gods. As for why they did it, that'd be something you'd have to actually ask them about, wouldn't you. :P As has been said however, the entire reason is quite detailed and I don't pertain to being a scholar on the subject.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 04:54:07 am by Crabnumber »
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Sigulbard

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 04:56:14 am »

Likely one of the most major reasons has to do with the Roman emperor, Constantine I, making the Roman Empire a predominantly christian empire, going so far as to modify some of the great olden Roman architecture into symbols of christianity, instead of the old pagan gods. As has been said however, the entire reason is quite detailed and I don't pertain to being a scholar on the subject.
That, and Christianity was an easier religion to follow. Paganism has lots of traditions and sacrifices that you need to follow and do, to gain the favor of the gods, but in Christianity you just have to 'believe,' pray and keep faithful to Jesus and gawd. And if you followed these simple rules, passage to an eternal paradise was promised! From a primitive farmer's standpoint, the latter is much more beneficial.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 05:57:34 am »

That, and Christianity was an easier religion to follow. Paganism has lots of traditions and sacrifices that you need to follow and do, to gain the favor of the gods, but in Christianity you just have to 'believe,' pray and keep faithful to Jesus and gawd. And if you followed these simple rules, passage to an eternal paradise was promised! From a primitive farmer's standpoint, the latter is much more beneficial.
Well you didn't actually need to follow much all except maybe honouring your Penates every day and whatever area of your patron God's spheres you wished help with. Christianity came with all the sacraments and the prayers and such, but didn't have to have anyone remembering any more than one God. Christianity was proselytizing, telling people of the chance to eternal heaven with the added threat of torturing your enemies for eternity. Paganism was non-proselytizing and indeed often united religions, and instead focused on living a good life in the present rather than seeking a good afterlife, because all things considered the afterlife was a place to be pitied more than desired. The schools of philosophy were much the same as paganism except they didn't even accept the idea that there had to be a God or any Gods whatsoever, and if there was - they wouldn't care about people. So for early to medieval Christians these were especially evil people, because they were seen as murdering peoples' souls. Sounds funny at first but this was their sincere belief, in fact the Christians invented posthumous execution. Since the early Christian belief was that the body had to be buried intact to be resurrected, beheading it or something along those lines would mean you essentially killed their chances of going to heaven. It is also why battles would be fought to recover the bodies of fallen leaders.

Likely one of the most major reasons has to do with the Roman emperor, Constantine I, making the Roman Empire a predominantly christian empire, going so far as to modify some of the great olden Roman architecture into symbols of christianity, instead of the old pagan gods. As for why they did it, that'd be something you'd have to actually ask them about, wouldn't you. :P As has been said however, the entire reason is quite detailed and I don't pertain to being a scholar on the subject.
And mainly this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
All the land are belong to Romans here when Constantinople made the Jebus day all day erryday

micelus

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 06:02:12 am »

This question is...complicated. I can basically summarise it to a few short points (no sources though, sorry):

-Bureaucracy and Politics: Constantine is Christian and has imposed his religion on the state. To get anywhere in the new social ladder, you gotta' appease the emperor.
-Afterlife: Christianity spreads the message of love and a good afterlife for the downtrodden and good. You didn't need to earn your afterlife on the battlefield or be doomed to a mediocre afterlife regardless of your morality.
-Test of Faith/Superstition: Christian missionaries ironically considered 'heathen' practices superstition. They regularly tested the gods of the north by destroying their shrines and holy sites. I remember one case where a saint (can't remember name) cut down Thor's holy tree in Germany/Denmark and the villagers promptly converted after seeing no divine retribution.
-Acceptance: Easier to trade/work/rule the remains of the Christian Roman Empire when you share the same faith, eh?
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Gervassen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 06:25:20 am »

I also always play the Norse in CK2. In fact, I've never played actual Christians in that game. I've also read the Edda and in particular find inspiration in the Havamal. However, I am neither Asatru nor a Christian. I am an atheist, small A. That means that I'm willing to look with clear and impartial eyes and say, truthfully, that Christianity really was a special religion, unlike any other.

Sigulbard wants to express something, but he doesn't quite get it right, perhaps because of a lingering dislike. Christianity was actually a multitude of heterodox teachings and gnostic mystery cults in the early days of the religion. It could be anything but a simple doctrine to get correct, as gnostics are often wont to craft needless complexity even in simple matters, simply to make themselves seem more enlightened than others. There would not be a standard and easily-followed orthodoxy for many centuries afterward, and the sola fide shortcut to heaven through belief alone is actually a Protestant belief dating to no earlier than the 1500s! So, Sigulbard is quite out in his assumptions.

The fact of the matter is that Christianity was far more personal than the earlier religions. Yes, you didn't do elaborate rituals to propitiate the stern and distant gods looking down from unreachable heights. If you've read the Iliad, you've no doubt been struck by the way that the Gods banter and wager on the outcome of thousands of deaths around Troy. That was the distant notion of divinity in the ancient mind. Christianity brought the concept of a god that sacrificed for you, who fed the poor, defended women from being stoned, and ultimately suffered as humans suffered. You prayed to a God that had been a man to connect with his children. That's far different. It's revolutionary. By the 180s, when official persecution was still strong and on-going, it has been estimated that Christians were already 10% of Rome, though mostly the underclass.The faith largely spread among the poor and the women who had no other stake in society.  I believe you'll find that Constantine was persuaded to moderation on Christianity through his mother being a Christian. Again and again in history, you'll find men being persuaded to accept Christianity because of influence from wives and mothers, including Saint Augustine himself.

So perhaps Christianity's time has passed now, but 1700 years ago, it was a vibrant young force. The ancient world was undergoing a cultural exhaustion that is evident in many areas of the arts, where nothing good or worthwhile survives in literature far past Tacitus, and the best poets of the age are poor imitators of Classical authors. It was a civilization in need of a new direction, and christianity filled that void. But there is no doubt that it was something new, and spread mostly by peaceful proselytization in the first three centuries. After Theodosius, around 400, it hardens and becomes a tool of the state with increasing orthodoxy and muscle. That happens to all social movements when authority claims them as a means to rule.

-Acceptance: Easier to trade/work/rule the remains of the Christian Roman Empire when you share the same faith, eh?

But... but... that implies that it's already dominant!

The question was how it became dominant, not what happened afterward. How do you go from Christians being persecuted in Diocletian's reign, and we're talking serious persecution, to the Edict of Milan a few decades later, in which Constantine made Christianity equal to the Classical pagan beliefs? Much of this is reflexively saying, "Well, Christianity became dominant through its dominance."
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:37:45 am by Gervassen »
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Sigulbard

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 06:42:40 am »

So I recently fired up Crusader Kings 2 again and as so often i tried to turn Norway back to Norse religion.
As I played i suddenly came to the Question, how the hell did this happen in the first place?
Why did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
I mean I know it came with Israelite Slaves to Rome, but how did it go onwards from there? Why and how did the Roman Empire turn from Nero's "Lets burn and crucify some Christians for shits and giggles" to Roman Emperors abolishing the Roman Pantheon and instating Christianity?
How did it go on from there? Shouldn't Christianity have gone down together with the West Roman Empire?

So I thought I post all these questions here and ask some of you guys because I know that many of you are pretty well read and learned in Historical Matters. However i'd like to keep this discussion free of any Religious Fundamental Discussions. Let's not let that Thread devolve into which Religion is the best and attract the Ire of Toady.
I'm finding lots of explanations by utilizing the Google machine. I'd recommend you try it too. :P
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 06:43:49 am »

Remembrr: christianity was dominant in the East. In the west, not so much
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Haspen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 07:04:27 am »

Christianity became domimant because of Constantine I and size of Roman Empire in the late Ancient times. Also, it was pretty simple religion for simple folk - and there's always more simple folk than elites.

Then you have collapse of the Western Roman Empire, but the Chrsitianity is still strong.

And then you have the 'Holy' Roman Empire of Charlemagne, which basically secured Christianity in France and Germany. Then Poland accepted Christianity in 966, and after that you basically have only Scandinavia and Baltic States left to convert.
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chaoticag

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 07:07:13 am »

I'm actually willing to argue that a big part of the reason Christianity spread was Roman roads of the time, in a sort of proto-internet of its time. There's also the fact that it espouses that you can't worship any other gods. To be a Pagan meant that as you met new people, you essentially discovered other gods, while Christianity doesn't share that world view. Constantine converting simply immortalized it, but for it to get to Constantine, I don't know if it'd have survived without the roads.

Oh, right, since even before Christianity dominated the Roman Empire, Christians followed a doctrine of brotherly love. Being Christian meant that travelling to other cities was much easier since you can depend on the charity of your fellow Christians for succor. Having a safe place to rest your head in those times was pretty valuable, and it provides quite a bit of incentive to convert.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 07:11:11 am »

Don't forget about missionaries, otherwise Britain'd still be doing druid worship.

Haspen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 07:12:16 am »

I think it started to change some time after the conquest of Britannia by Roman Empire? :P
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