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Author Topic: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?  (Read 11135 times)

Gervassen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 07:21:01 am »

Don't forget about missionaries, otherwise Britain'd still be doing druid worship.

Woden worship actually. The missionaries in England were converting Saxons who worshipped Germanic gods, because they had invaded from Germany in the 500s; the earlier Romano-Britons had been Christian already for centuries, but were frankly the subject of genocides when the Saxons settled and were not a significant population in England anymore.

The druids were not welcome in the Roman religion, because they had a political aspect. While the Roman pantheon allowed foreign gods, the Romans were careful to eliminate gods which would compete with the Emperor cult. You can observe the battle at Mona in which Suentonius slaughters the druids there. The Romans did not brook Druidical practice, because it was too strong a political contender.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 07:23:17 am »

I think it started to change some time after the conquest of Britannia by Roman Empire? :P
Anglo-saxon invasions after the Romans ditched England. Anglo-saxons pagan. Christianity had to get reintroduced.

lordcooper

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 07:23:55 am »

We really don't know much at all about the Druids, and much of what we do 'know' is mere speculation.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 07:26:41 am »

Quite so, and the Romans were cool with Celtic Gods like Sulis.

Gervassen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 07:37:45 am »

But what we do know is that Tacitus, a Roman pagan, wrote an excellent history that covered what his father-in-law Suetonius did in Britian among other things, and he writes in around 110 AD...

prepared to attack the island of Mona which had a powerful population and was a refuge for fugitives. He built flat-bottomed vessels to cope with the shallows, and uncertain depths of the sea. Thus the infantry crossed, while the cavalry followed by fording, or, where the water was deep, swam by the side of their horses. On the shore stood the opposing army with its dense array of armed warriors, while between the ranks dashed women, in black attire like the Furies, with hair dishevelled, waving brands. All around, the Druids, lifting up their hands to heaven, and pouring forth dreadful imprecations, scared our soldiers by the unfamiliar sight, so that, as if their limbs were paralysed, they stood motionless, and exposed to wounds. Then urged by their general's appeals and mutual encouragements not to quail before a troop of frenzied women, they bore the standards onwards, smote down all resistance, and wrapped the foe in the flames of his own brands. A force was next set over the conquered, and their groves, devoted to inhuman superstitions, were destroyed. They deemed it indeed a duty to cover their altars with the blood of captives and to consult their deities through human entrails

People often want a narrative that there was a good religion out there, and Christianity stole its place unfairly. The truth is that all of them were bigoted and tried to destroy other religions. You don't find 21st century tolerance outside the 21 century. Not even Rome, despite the narrative recently promulgated in some quarters that it was a beacon of tolerance.
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lordcooper

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 07:43:09 am »

We know what a man who died around 2000 years ago wrote about what another man told him.  Hardly the most respectable of sources.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 07:46:18 am »

People often want a narrative that there was a good religion out there, and Christianity stole its place unfairly. The truth is that all of them were bigoted and tried to destroy other religions. You don't find 21st century tolerance outside the 21 century. Not even Rome, despite the narrative recently promulgated in some quarters that it was a beacon of tolerance.
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Gervassen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 07:50:44 am »

We know what a man who died around 2000 years ago wrote about what another man told him.  Hardly the most respectable of sources.

Same as a man who lived 10 years ago writing about what another man told him, for that matter. Mankind hasn't changed much in the intervening centuries. You've condemned all of history with those words, and perhaps you're right. But it still feels a little nihilistic to me to disregard history simply because all of it is basically "one man told another man that..."

Broken link for me, Loud Whispers, but from the image name Pollice Verso, I'm going to guess it's a downturned thumb. Latin class finally paid off!
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lordcooper

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 07:56:14 am »

Not really, I'm saying that a single (possibly dubious) source is not enough to confirm or deny anything.  Historical truth is normally found somewhere in between several varying sources.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 08:00:18 am »

Broken link for me, Loud Whispers, but from the image name Pollice Verso, I'm going to guess it's a downturned thumb. Latin class finally paid off!
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scriver

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 08:02:48 am »

I find one word curiously missing from this discussion.

War.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2013, 08:08:19 am »

So perhaps Christianity's time has passed now...

The Roman Catholic Church is declining, but Orthodox Christianity still stands strong, especially in Eastern Europe and Russia.
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Gervassen

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2013, 08:15:42 am »

War.

Christianity didn't grow much from war, because it arose from within an established empire. You can find religious wars later in its history, obviously, but its beginnings were not characterized by religious warfare. Unlike, say, um, well...

732 AD, Poitiers, France. Never Forget!
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lordcooper

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2013, 08:42:20 am »

Yeah, Christianity was actually a really peaceful and benevolent religion way back when.
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scriver

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Re: Why/How did Christianity become so dominant in Europe?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2013, 08:50:02 am »

It depends on how far you mean by "back then". The Christening of northern Europe was done completely under the sword.
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