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[LordBucket]

they weren't opposed to a female character, they were opposed to a female character that was in an active relationship. You can have a female protagonist as long as she has sex appeal, and being in a relationship isn't 'sexy'.
Because her boyfriend has a role in the story line, it was suggested that they swap genders rather than just remove the guy. Apparently it is ok when a girl is dating the protagonist because self reflection fantasies.

That might be valid.

If you were the one signing the check for twenty million dollars, and your market research reported that something like 70% of your customers were male, how confidant would you be that casting them in the role of being a girl making out with a guy wouldn't hurt your sales?

Samus has been exploited for her sexuality from game one.

No, that she was female was only even revealed after you beat the game.

Well apart from Faith (Mirrors edge) and Chell (Portal) who else do we really have?

http://www.ranker.com/list/list-of-games-with-girls-in-the-lead/video-game-info

I have not vetted that list. I simply consulted google. Other lists exist.

[Max White]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really. Heck, looking at the cover art I would say that 70% is their target market! A female in a relationship isn't going to hurt sales, thinking it will is the problem.

Also, do you mean this ending?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fact that she was a woman was meant to be fan service.
Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with that. I think it is fine! But lets be honest about if a female character is there to portray a positive example or be fan service. In looking for non-sexulized female protagonists, Samus really is a bad example.

[LordBucket]

The fact that she was a woman was meant to be fan service.

As somehow who grew up in the 80s and actually had and played Metroid, that is not how I interpreted it at all. I interpreted it as a deliberate social statement. The game went out of its way to hide the fact that Samus was a girl. She was completely covered, head to toe, and the manual deliberately referred to her using masculine pronouns:

 -- "As a last resort, the Federation Police have decided on this strategy: to send a
space hunter to penetrate the center of the fortress and destroy Mother Brain. The
space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. He is the greatest of all the
space hunters and has successfully completed numerous missions that everybody thought
were absolutely impossible. He is a cyborg: his entire body has been surgically
strengthened with robotics, giving him superpowers. Even the space pirates fear his
space suit, which can absorb any enemy's power. But his true form is shrouded
in mystery."

She was only revealed to be girl at the very end, after you beat it, seconds before the game rolled credits. It was not fan service. It was "you played this game for weeks, you've been playing the greatest space hunter in the galaxy...by the way, she's a girl."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroid_(video_game)

"The revelation of Samus being a woman was also lauded as innovative, with GameTrailers remarking that this "blew the norm of women in pieces, at a time when female video game characters were forced into the role of dutiful queen or kidnapped princess"

If you want to complain about the portrayal of women in games, Metroid is not the game to use as an example.

[DJ]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really.

It kinda would be a problem, though. But it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with homophobia.

[Max White]

She was only revealed to be girl at the very end, after you beat it, seconds before the game rolled credits. It was not fan service. It was "you played this game for weeks, you've been playing the greatest space hunter in the galaxy...by the way, she's a girl."

You say that but then I have to wonder... Why is she dressed like that?

[AlleeCat]

Well apart from Faith (Mirrors edge) and Chell (Portal) who else do we really have? Lara Croft is a little bit of a joke, and when I say a little bit of a joke I mean huuuge tracks of joke. Samus has been exploited for her sexuality from game one.

Actually Jade from Beyond Good & Evil is pretty good!

If you look at Metroid Prime, Samus has actually been getting less exploited as the games go on. (Again, pretending Other M never existed.) Although I can't say much about the other two sequels to Prime, because I'm not too familiar with them.

By the way, I still haven't played much of Silent Hill 3, but do they ever exploit Heather at all? I know she's not exactly competent, but not being exploited has to count for something, right?

[Skyrunner]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really.

It kinda would be a problem, though. But it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with homophobia.

What does a female in a relationship with a male have to do with homophobia? o_O

[LordBucket]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really.

It kinda would be a problem, though. But it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with homophobia.

Ok, but is it "homophobia" or simply appealing to the emotional needs and preferences of your target audience? Maybe you can "handle" identifying with being a girl taking some sweaty, muscular dude's tongue down your throat, but just ask yourselves honestly if you believe that the average console gamer really wants to do that.

What does a female in a relationship with a male have to do with homophobia? o_O

The assumption is that the player will identify with the character they're playing.

[MonkeyHead]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really.

It kinda would be a problem, though. But it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with homophobia.

What does a female in a relationship with a male have to do with homophobia? o_O

That male gamers might not be of a level of emotional maturity to deal with playing the role of an individual (regardless of the gender of said individual) who is in love with a man.

[AlleeCat]

See that is going off the assumption that the majority of your male audience can't handle playing as a female in a relationship. it is very patronizing really.

It kinda would be a problem, though. But it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with homophobia.

What does a female in a relationship with a male have to do with homophobia? o_O

Because the game industry assumes that it's player base is male, therefor, if a male is playing as a female character, who is kissing a male character, then that is exactly the same as that male player kissing another male. Because there's no difference between reality and video games.

[smirk]

I'd... actually agree with LordBucket on the Samus one, Max. It was a big reveal for its time. Yeah, she was drawn in a sexualized way (no way those hips fit into that power armor), but it was still pretty revolutionary. Super Metroid had the same thing, plus the (in)famous bikini-death, but it also had the subplot of the metroid thinking you were its mother - which was handled fairly well, so far as I remember. Early Samus is far from the worst example of female protagonists, even if she still had a way to go. We... shall not speak of the Zero suit or Other M  o_o

Maybe you can "handle" identifying with being a girl taking some sweaty, muscular dude's tongue down your throat

Your phrasing. It makes me worry.

[Leafsnail]

Clannad - This is a visual novel. The player is limited to only playing a male character. There is a secondary male character who is portrayed as The Butt Monkey. The female characters are well developed with unique personalities and interests. Weak, passive female characters do exist, but they are outnumbered by strong, competent and capable women. Some sexualization does exist, but the visuals are generally PG rated, and women are generally placed on a pedestal more than objectified. For example, kissing is portrayed as a "Big Deal."

Are you seriously attempting to use a Key game as an example of progressiveness in the games industry

[LordBucket]

Are you seriously attempting to use a Key game as an example of progressiveness in the games industry

No, I was, as I already explained:

"giving an honest and complete list, not an incomplete and biased one."

If I'd not listed the dating sim that I have installed, it would been lying. I chose not to do that. Giving a full and complete list, whether or  not any particular item on that list supports my position is honest, and I chose to do that.

Also...Leafsnail, please don't bother replying to anything else I say. Like...ever. Please. Yes, you don't like me. I know. I get it. I'll just assume that anything I say you disagree with. You don't need to stalk me in every thread I post to to remind me.

[Leafsnail]

The idea that I'm "stalking" you is ridiculous.  I read most general discussion threads, and I occasionally respond to you if you post in them.

That said, you are attempting to retroactively change what you said.  Which is fine, but the way you should do that is "Sorry, what I intended to say what X", rather than attempting to paint the person you're talking to as someone who misrepresented you (because they responded to the words you wrote rather than the meaning you later decided those words had).

What I mean by this is that in your last post you're attempting to characterize Clannad as something you listed which disagreed with your point but decided to put down anyway (which would be fair enough), but in your original list you were clearly attempting to spin it as a positive, progressive thing.  So that's what I was responding to.

But whatever I guess.  It's fair to say that the games you have on your computer aren't very sexist, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same is true for the industry as a whole.

[Soadreqm]

She was only revealed to be girl at the very end, after you beat it, seconds before the game rolled credits. It was not fan service. It was "you played this game for weeks, you've been playing the greatest space hunter in the galaxy...by the way, she's a girl."

You say that but then I have to wonder... Why is she dressed like that?

In Samus' case, I can actually think of reasons to be dressed like that. She has some kind of insanely sophisticated power armour made by the chozo. In most games, she is constantly wearing it. Why would she need any other clothes? It's not like she ever has to take it off when there are other people around. And since this is bullshit precursor technology we're talking about, you can even make up some excuse about the suit needing to directly interface with her skin. Even without such an excuse, wearing baggy clothes under a futuristic space suit sounds hella uncomfortable. How is the suit supposed to keep you clean through the clothes? How do you use the integrated bathroom?

Anyway, regardless of whether the ending screen is tarted up for the sole purpose of fanservice, I think Samus shows that it's okay for a girl to be a mute protagonist in power armour who guns down xeno scum by the thousands and has a distressing tendency to blow up half the planets she lands on.