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Author Topic: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over  (Read 201944 times)

notquitethere

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #630 on: May 01, 2013, 06:53:31 pm »

Tiruin
Meaning that I'm really unsure how (and this is what I suspect you're doing) vote patterns relate. Actually, why do you think so? Seeing that your conclusion is So, if Otto is scum, even considering the fact that he'd want to blend in, the majority actions thus far performed must be in scum's favour.

Explain that please.
What do you think about Otto, NQT? How does Vector match there -- why or how would that explain her actions?
Sometimes I don't think you get when I'm talking about hypothetical situations. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about Otto- there's just too many possibilities to say that he's definitely scum. I'm saying though that as he's followed the majority actions for everything (like a lot of people) then all or most of the majority actions are probably in scum's favour and that's a possibility I wanted people to think about. Likewise, I don't have anything strong to say about Vector, but if Otto (or whomever) is scum and performed a pro-Vector move, then this makes Vector in turn look less innocent. But as yet, we've no firm reason to suppose that Otto or Vector or whomever is really scum.

Wuba, still not answering my question (third time now? Fourth?) DO YOU HAVE A POWER?
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Okami No Rei

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #631 on: May 01, 2013, 10:53:43 pm »

I'm back.  Catching up.
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

Okami No Rei

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 3 - One replacement needed
« Reply #632 on: May 02, 2013, 12:29:07 am »

ONR, the exact time of Meph's PM is listed in one of my first posts in this game.  I really don't feel like digging it up right now.
Thank you. Found it:
Nope, I didn't mention before.  I received it at ~11:00 Pacific Time on April 9th.

Ottofar - You still haven't answered my question.  When, exactly, did you receive your advice?  Specifically, the advice that Toaster's power is interesting?

Solifuge - Any words of Wisdom to share with us today?  If yes, when did you receive them?  (Post the advice itself at your discretion.)

Everyone - Don't waste time snuffing Dariush's white.  I have an inspect of my own, and he's showing Town, along with Onyxjew and Vector.  As for my god, I am an Elder Priest.  My years as a man of the cloth have brought me close to each of the gods in turn, and I gain Wisdom from the teachings of all.

Right now, I think the most sensible course of action is to Snuff Ottofar Green.

Why green and not white?  Take a look back at the opening post of the game.  Pay attention to Meph's exact words.

We need to find scum and break their power.  Since green == power, we need to figure out scum, and snuff their green candles. 

For the second action, I believe Toaster's roleblock would be more immediately useful, since he can then block Otto tonight, which, theoretically, will prevent scum from manipulating two candles tonight.  That would also confirm that Captain Ford is scum, since he was the one blocked N1, and scum only changed one candle that night.

Light Toaster Green

I still think we're missing a piece of the puzzle.  Most of the hints I've received revolve around the teal candles, but I don't yet see how they fit in.  I'm working on a side theory, but I need more input from Vector, Otto, and now Solifuge before I come out with it. 
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

Okami No Rei

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #633 on: May 02, 2013, 12:30:38 am »

EBWOP - Nevermind Soli.  I saw your post where you said you received no advice.
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

Nerjin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #634 on: May 02, 2013, 12:52:22 am »

You know Okami I find it odd that of your 12 posts... Let's see...

2 Were you saying nothing but asking for an extension/shorten while voting.

1 Were you claimed a big post upon the morrow [you didn't follow up as your next post was you saying "Yesss"]

Alright so that's 1/3 of your posts being not much use despite claiming to have an inspection. Some of those were day one so we won't count this too harshly.

Now onto something that caught my attention:

Everyone - Don't waste time snuffing Dariush's white.  I have an inspect of my own, and he's showing Town, along with Onyxjew and Vector.  As for my god, I am an Elder Priest.  My years as a man of the cloth have brought me close to each of the gods in turn, and I gain Wisdom from the teachings of all.

Alright, it's always good to have an inspe...

Okami Your teal candle is lit, do you have any ideas on what that might mean?
I suspect it means I possess the Wisdom to see the truth, but that's from reading between the lines on my role.  It's affect is not directly stated.

I don't know how the green candle affects me.

Hm... So you obviously found out that your role has an inspect. Judging by what you said earlier you used it on Onyx and Vector as well as our lovable friend Dariush. I'll admit the breaking of their power thing was somewhat interesting to point out. Though I wonder if you don't want to just use town as unwitting pawns in some sort of scheme. Okami just to make my point clear: I don't know if you're scum or not. Though I do find you conveniently coming to defend the notion of Dariush being town [though it wasn't under much suspicion to begin with] as well as the other two. Mayhaps two of them are a decoy given that we are almost certain that Otto is scum and I doubt there'd be more than three in this set-up. Unlikely I'll admit but still the notion is possible. More interesting is that you worship all four gods. Is that jut in case someone does inspect you and learns that you worship "Multiple gods" perhaps a god of light and dark?

So answer me this Okami why did you inspect who you did?
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Okami No Rei

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #635 on: May 02, 2013, 07:11:17 am »

You know Okami I find it odd that of your 12 posts... Let's see...

2 Were you saying nothing but asking for an extension/shorten while voting.

1 Were you claimed a big post upon the morrow [you didn't follow up as your next post was you saying "Yesss"]
The "big post" was the one with my notes from D1 to D3.  That one took more time than I anticipated.

Alright so that's 1/3 of your posts being not much use despite claiming to have an inspection. Some of those were day one so we won't count this too harshly.
RL factors are preventing me from having the time I'd like to make proper posts each night.  If that's a problem, I can certainly request replacement.

Hm... So you obviously found out that your role has an inspect.
Found out?  I've known my role power from the beginning, but I chose not to reveal anything save that I had one.  What I didn't know, then, was how the candles affected my role. That's what I meant when I said that "It's [Teals] affect is not directly stated."

Judging by what you said earlier you used it on Onyx and Vector as well as our lovable friend Dariush.
Yes.

So answer me this Okami why did you inspect who you did?
Onyx - He's been lurking, and I wanted info.
Vector - She pushed for her green candle lit D1, and I wanted to know if we'd made a mistake giving her that.
Dariush - Pushed for his teal candle lit (before I received advice regarding his candle), and I wanted to know if we could trust him with it.

More interesting is that you worship all four gods. Is that jut in case someone does inspect you and learns that you worship "Multiple gods" perhaps a god of light and dark?
I worship five gods.  Telmorin, Derala, Andoras, Avos, and Nirian.
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It is by the spice caffeine that thoughts acquire speed.
...start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town...

Tiruin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #636 on: May 02, 2013, 07:19:59 am »

PFP

...Ok, I really can't fathom why you guys are pushing for a power candle lynch. If we both snuff the white candles of Dar and Otto, it means they're knocked unconscious. Or...

Tiruin looks at Okami, then at Toaster, then glances at Vector, then lastly at the High Priest whose name she did not know. "Excuse me your most holy, forgive me if I'm being informal, but now that we're in mostly a consensus vote about who the traitors are, what shalt we do next? Is it possible for I to sacrifice myself in order to not let one of them pass back into this most holy chamber of ours?"
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Tiruin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #637 on: May 02, 2013, 07:22:13 am »

PFP-ING
More interesting is that you worship all four gods. Is that jut in case someone does inspect you and learns that you worship "Multiple gods" perhaps a god of light and dark?
I worship five gods.  Telmorin, Derala, Andoras, Avos, and Nirian.
Heh, funny thing. You're the only one, D1 who's the odd one out.

Haha.

Weird. Why are you pantheistic? O_o
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Nerjin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 1
« Reply #638 on: May 02, 2013, 10:18:09 am »

Okami Your teal candle is lit, do you have any ideas on what that might mean?
I suspect it means I possess the Wisdom to see the truth, but that's from reading between the lines on my role.  It's affect is not directly stated.

I don't know how the green candle affects me.

Found out?  I've known my role power from the beginning, but I chose not to reveal anything save that I had one.  What I didn't know, then, was how the candles affected my role. That's what I meant when I said that "It's [Teals] affect is not directly stated."

Interesting. I think you knew very well how your candles affected you and are now trying to retcon this to slip something past us. I don't know if it's a pro-town power that you don't want the scum finding out about or whether it's the fact that you are scum. Never-the-less you lied about your role power while droppng hints. If you wanted to keep it a secret so bad why drop the hints in the first place?

More interesting is that you worship all four gods. Is that jut in case someone does inspect you and learns that you worship "Multiple gods" perhaps a god of light and dark?
I worship five gods.  Telmorin, Derala, Andoras, Avos, and Nirian.

Way to not even address the actual issue. Arguins semantics is much easier I suppose. Still that's not really an issue. Though I think that perhaps you do worship multiple gods. Only three less than you're claiming.

Snuff Okami No Rei White

If you end up smelling like any of the other townies [assumed] who've been snuffed I'll be the first to vote to bring you back tomorrow. Until then I find you're sudden revelation of your power a bit suspicious.
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Dariush

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 3 - One replacement needed
« Reply #639 on: May 02, 2013, 10:46:52 am »

ONR:
Right now, I think the most sensible course of action is to Snuff Ottofar Green.
I can see why you would want to do this (though I don't agree with your notion, and would prefer snuffing his white at least once more to see the results), but why then additionally roleblock Ottofar when he won't have a power?

Nerjin, you're a dumbfuck. Stating that an inspection returned town is not defending out of nowhere. Also, riddle me this: why would ONR, were he scum, ever claim worshipping multiple gods?

Tiruin, you're a dumbfuck. But you already know that. Really, you're just painfully stupid. Looking at your posts makes my head hurt from the possibility of someone being such a braindead moron as you are.

Soli, so basically your entire argument hinges on the fact that I decided to investigate the effects of lighting a 'dead' person's non-white candle and someone else agreed with me (since my single vote obviously wouldn't have accomplished anything) and that somehow makes us a team. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Oh, and you discarded the pretty much confirmed notion of hidden candles because <NULL>. Did I mention you're a dumbfuck? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't. You're a dumbfuck. Though unlike Nerjin and Tiruin at least you're unlikely to be scum due to your smoketrail. That's something.

Well, looks like my second vote isn't going to do any good staying alone on Tir's green. Unless my memory betrays me, nobody claimed any useful power except Vector. Thus, unvote, snuff Ottofar's white, light Vector's green. Oh, and if someone decides to snuff anyone's non-white candle, they'll have my vote. Trailflips are always good.

Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #640 on: May 02, 2013, 12:02:02 pm »

Though I understand the nature of the test, empowering Dead Townies seems like an obvious way for Scum to get Town to squander their Day Vote, and slow the Town's power-growth by empowering someone who doesn't stand to benefit from it.
That argument doesn't hold water because you're alive now, and you've got a teal candle lit. If we'd lit your white instead, you'd be alive but have no more information to add to the game. We learned something by lighting one of your other candles instead, and now that you're alive, you're getting advice from your god. I don't see how this slowed town's advancement at all.

I was sorta hoping folks would forget the "Res Me" thing, and just try to get a handle on the puzzle. Then, Dariush's proposition to "revive" me with a Green Candle happened... and it struck me as a bit weird.  And it was weird that Dariush's vote was mirrored directly afterward by Ottofar and Captain Ford, without question.
Did you miss the part that said I was already considering it myself? Is it so illogical for multiple people to have drawn the same conclusion? Ottofar had no explanation, but don't lump me together with him. I argued for that decision more than enough. I do believe the information we gained was more valuable than simply lighting your white.

And even better when Captain Ford went on to "accidentally" Tie the vote, along with his teammates. Tying the vote is a way to cripple the Town's Day-Vote, giving the scum's Night-Vote a 1-vote advantage.
I ... am having a very hard time not getting upset about this.

I was lynched in my first BM because the mod incorrectly counted the number of extend votes. We wasted a candle manip yesterday because the mod posted an incorrect votecount and never corrected it or gave us any warning or chance to fix it.

Blaming me for the tie is ridiculous. Take a look at the votecount and the votes in red after it, and you'll see that I was attempting to break a tie, not to cause one. I am incredibly upset for two big reasons:
1. I was powerless to do anything to prevent it. My power was taken away by the mod's mistake. There is no-one to blame, because it was a mistake, but I tried the best I could to prevent it, and instead ended up causing it. Can you understand how angry that makes me?
2. The rest of the players didn't give a shit. I even warned them that there might be vote manipulations, and we even had a vote reset, but nobody even tried to prevent the vote from tying up. It was a fucking catastrophe. I just don't understand why everyone else behaved in such a shitty way, and the fact that you're blaming me for everyone else's lousy behavior is really pissing me off.

We have a pretty good knowledge of why Dariush and Ottofar are scummy; heck, that their candles behaved differently than everyone else's is just another indicator.
Jesus Christ. NO. It only proves that someone was screwing with them. I know it's WIFOM to assume they're town, but why the fuck would you assume they're scum? That's the most bullshit idea I've ever heard.

Besides that, we already know why their candles behaved differently. Do you not remember the feeling candles for heat part? Some part of your brain is completely failing to grasp what's going on.

But to explain why I suspect Captain Ford... for a start, he has been trying very hard to appear Town in his posts, to convey that he "has nothing to hide" from an investigation, etc. He suggests Vector investigate two specific players, without any suspicions against them. Then, after he tied the Day Vote to negate it, he apologizes and explains how "shocked" and "angry" he was about it, and in the same breath requests the Town to light his godly candle to empower him. Seriously dude? You've gotten too bold.
That would be because I am very frustrated with the state of the game. Discussion and consensus simply isn't happening. The votes were allowed to tie because people were stupid and lazy, and it is frustrating the hell out of me.

So my reaction, in addition to expressing my frustration, was to start anticipating questions and answering them as clearly and concisely as I could. A choice you characterize as "being too bold". So apparently, trying to find a constructive solution to a problem is scummy to you.

Most damning, however, is how they talk and act like Reviving me has to be a pro-Town action, despite that Town has no way of knowing that I'm Town.
Yeah, know why? Because you can't answer questions if you're dead. We don't know if you're town or scum, and knowing would be valuable. It IS a pro-town action, even if you're scum.

In a game where the Mod clarifies that players can revive, a player electing to off themselves could be reasonably suspicious... unless you were Scum, and you knew alignment already.
Or maybe my word is worth something. Yes, you're suspicious. But we can't learn anything about you if you're dead.


What are you trying to show, exactly? That I'm too forthcoming?

This game has been languishing because people are too lazy. I'm trying my best to not be a part of the problem. Being called out for trying to productive when everyone else is being lousy is simply infuriating.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #641 on: May 02, 2013, 12:19:17 pm »

I am pissed off today for largely RL reasons. One of my "friends" has put me into a very uncomfortable situation, and I really don't have a good way out of it.

Also I'm ticked off by a lot of stupid things that were said yesterday but that I couldn't respond to because of other RL bullshit.



Tiruin: Why on earth are you assuming that Dariush is scum? Where the hell did that come from?

Also, when summing up the case against Ottofar, you missed the fact that VECTOR GOT A SCUM INSPECT ON HIM.



Dariush: Did you even read the flavor? "cleansing" is pretty much the perfect way to describe it. Why on earth are you suspicious of that word, anyway? If she'd used any other word I bet you would have reacted the same way. Unless you actually know the names of the abilities, in which case, why on earth are you calling that out?

Your fascination with pulling particular words out of her posts and treating them as some kind of claim is bizarre and doesn't make any fucking sense.



Solifuge:
Snuff Ottofar's White - because we can't afford to have him perform his 3-Candle "Dance of Light and Darkness".
What do you mean by "3-candle"?



NQT: So are you actually going to follow up on your question? Or ask any new ones, maybe?
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #642 on: May 02, 2013, 12:25:34 pm »

Tiruin speculated that someone may have had dust on them from snuffing the candle last night. That's dumb and it conveys an obvious misconception on her part. Namely that people would have to actually enter this room to do anything to the candles.

So far, the candles have been totally unaffected by our physical actions. They've been affected by our votes, and by the powers of other gods and prayer, presumably. Of course, there's a much easier way to clear that up.

High Priest: "You've been here the whole time, all night. Has anyone entered this room during any of the nights of this trial?"

(unrelated, just to see what happens) In my frustration. I attempt to kick over a candle. My white one.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Ottofar

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 3 - One replacement needed
« Reply #643 on: May 02, 2013, 12:50:54 pm »

ONR, the exact time of Meph's PM is listed in one of my first posts in this game.  I really don't feel like digging it up right now.
Thank you. Found it:
Nope, I didn't mention before.  I received it at ~11:00 Pacific Time on April 9th.

Ottofar - You still haven't answered my question.  When, exactly, did you receive your advice?  Specifically, the advice that Toaster's power is interesting?

11:30, April 12th, forum standard.

Nerjin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 4 brings restoration
« Reply #644 on: May 02, 2013, 12:59:14 pm »

Tiruin speculated that someone may have had dust on them from snuffing the candle last night. That's dumb and it conveys an obvious misconception on her part. Namely that people would have to actually enter this room to do anything to the candles.

So far, the candles have been totally unaffected by our physical actions. They've been affected by our votes, and by the powers of other gods and prayer, presumably. Of course, there's a much easier way to clear that up.

Except that the High Priest has stated that we can only affect the candles while upon our diases.

That being said is there a peaceful option to all this? Must we really persecute a sect of devout worshippers? Maybe if we offer amnesty in exchange for their cooperation we can come to a peaceful agreement such as "We'll build you a little wing of the temple to do your worship. We won't bother you if you do the same for us."

Ah well...
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