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[Sheb]

Wow. That's a lot of treachery. Given that we paid a total of seven Wealth to our "allies", I wonder how much Ardas spent on them to get them to turn, and to get an alliance to boot. Do you actually roll anything behind scene and they got lucky?

Anyway, well played Ardas, well played indeed. I think you're the only one with PC left? Can you act so we can end the turn?

[Iituem]

Wow. That's a lot of treachery. Given that we already paid money to our own sides for help, I wonder how much was put out.

Anyway, well played Ardas, well played indeed. I think you're the only one with PC left? Can you act so we can end the turn?

Lots.  There's AI factions likely building big armies or infrastructure in the next couple of turns.

And yeah, you can also declare 'I have no more actions' or just 'I don't wish to intercede any further in the present conflicts' to preserve PC.  (The latter is in case Ardas wanted, say, Ghaz to burn his last 2 Might on razing infrastructure and then gang-rape him with his new allies in an act of brilliant if slightly predictable treachery.  As once Ghaz looted he could then make a new action sending in two Might and wrecking shit up.)

Edit: Not exactly.  I have a chart based on government and power base type that determines how likely a given AI faction is to commit treachery or dishonourable acts.  Kleptocrats are the worst, and Platocrats the best for honouring alliances.  Relations are also taken into account - they'd have charged more if you had better relations with them.  Otherwise I use my own judgement (skewed by their values) to determine how likely a side is to accept any diplomatic offer.  I generally don't roll dice for this game, except when looking at opportunities/crises.

But yeah, they had to beat your offers and then some and offer them protection on top of that (because the AI factions wanted to both bet on the winner and not be left out in the cold after their betrayal).

[Sheb]

Edit: Ooops, didn't see your answer. Still they got a sweet deal. I guess we won't see the Wealth we were suppose to pay back?

Well, Ardas, really well played. I knew I should have waited more.

[Iituem]

See above, edited it into my post.  Although I will say that the getting allies part wasn't so much a bumper deal as a logical consequence of the betrayal - they weren't just going to betray you and then leave themselves open to retaliation without some sort of big-brother protector.

And to reiterate, I rarely roll for diplomacy.  It's based on how self-serving/canny the govt/power base is.  Kleptocrats are willing to double-deal and dirty, democrats tend to go for whatever option will yield peace, plutocrats go for money (and charge through the nose) etc.

[Sheb]

Anyway:
 
Damn. Leonardo was upset His allies turned on them as soon as they smelt money. Treacherous bastard, betraying the hands that fed them. And doing it for so cheap too! At least HE knew how to exact a fair price for turning its coat. The Jinster venture had been a bad investment, and House Ferdicis stoop greatly diminished by it. And with the looming economic crisis, there simply was no money to pay for a war. He had to accept its defeat and seek the best possible way out. Taking his quill, he wrote the hardest letters he ever had to.

Spoiler: To the King of Primera (click to show/hide)

Your Grace,

I apologize for doubting your judgement in my last letter. It seems you were the one that bet on the right horse, while I forgot to look mine in the teeths. It seems an humble merchant such as myself simply shouldn't go into war.
As such, I would like to follow my allies' path, and ask for your protection. I long to return to more commercial activities and get out of this war business, and shall happily pay you tribute and put my men under your command if you guarantee my estate.

Yours,

Leonardo Feridicis.

Spoiler: Just to be clear (click to show/hide)

I'm not opting out of the game using this alliance mechanism yet. I want to do just what I said: offsource my defense to Ardas in exchange for cash and obedience.

Also, another though: doesn't the fact that one can use Wealth to influence NPCs (And without spending PC to boot!) make Influence obsolete?

[Ghazkull]

Victory. We had won. The Albians gave us a hard fight but somehow we survived. Treachery is something that runs deeply in these lands, men turn their cloacks ant every opportunity for coin. And thanks to our Allies we survived. The Jarl and all of Finster would not forget the sacrifices our allies brought. Thanks would be forthcoming soon enough when they would be showered in the wealth of our raids.

Question: Now that it costs no PC to let troops raze stuff, do i still use up my Might units for razing or do i keep them?

Use 1 Influence to increase support of my Powerbase

[Iituem]

Nope.  You can't sway opinions, you can't foment revolts and you can't shift power groups with Wealth.  Ordinarily you can't even pull an alliance switch like that, it evolved naturally out of the treachery.

And, since it hasn't affected their opinions, those new allies are about as reliable to Primeria as they were to you.  Influence can improve relations to the point where betrayal isn't a concern - at Loyal and Fanatic relations, NPC allies will not betray except under special circumstances (e.g. if you are clearly and obviously screwed and their best chance of survival is treachery - and even then Fanatics might stick with).

That said, trading resources is certainly powerful simply because trade doesn't have a PC cost.  Let's say you have 100% cost for raising Might.  You need to spend 2 PC and 1 Wealth to raise 1 unit of Might and then send it off to war.  Instead you offer your AI ally Generica 2 Wealth to do it instead.  They take your 2 Wealth, spend 1 Wealth on raising the Might and then send it off to war in your stead (costing them 2 PC, but earning them 1 Wealth).  They might charge more or less depending on their attitude toward you.

The middle road is a faction like Mecklen.  Mecklen spends 2 PC to recruit 2 Might (at a cost of 2 Wealth), gives them both to you for 5 Wealth and then you spend 2 PC of your own to send them into battle.  Mecklen loses direct control of its mercenaries when it hands them over, but doesn't need to spend the PC to do the invasion either.  Mecklen is basically just an arms dealer in the transaction rather than an independent entity - which is why Mecklen's mercenaries couldn't betray in that last exchange (though they were certainly approached!).

Victory. We had won. The Albians gave us a hard fight but somehow we survived. Treachery is something that runs deeply in these lands, men turn their cloacks ant every opportunity for coin. And thanks to our Allies we survived. The Jarl and all of Finster would not forget the sacrifices our allies brought. Thanks would be forthcoming soon enough when they would be showered in the wealth of our raids.

Question: Now that it costs no PC to let troops raze stuff, do i still use up my Might units for razing or do i keep them?

Use 1 Influence to increase support of my Powerbase

To clarify, you still use up the Might units razing/capturing, yes.  It just costs PC to move them into the theatre, but since you need to be in the theatre to do the razing...

[Urist_McDrowner]

Woah, Ilteum, I bought all the mercenaries including Moylnars'. I should have two troops left in Finster. I can send you screenies of that, where I referred to the might I was sending as 6 in my correspondence with my allies among others. My mistake for not being clearer.

[Sheb]

Actually, 1 Might left, as Primeria commited to up to two Mights.

[Urist_McDrowner]

All the same, the battle was won.

[Ghazkull]

Those were nercs if i see that correctly. So you couldn't have moved them.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Those were nercs if i see that correctly. So you couldn't have moved them.

They were not described as Mercs by the event post, so I assumed the Molynars were providing them at personal PC expense.

[mcclay]

"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG HHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN! PULL ALL UNITS BACK TO THE WALL, WE WILL HOLD!"

[Sheb]

Turn ain't over Mcclay.

[Ghazkull]

and all your standing army is dead.