Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reelya]

American's re-invented the meaning of Liberal. The Australian Liberal party is Liberal in the same sense as "Neoliberalism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Americas[...]
In North America, unlike in Europe, the word liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism in contemporary politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is a political philosophy whose advocates support economic liberalization, free trade and open markets, privatization, deregulation, and decreasing the size of the public sector while increasing the role of the private sector in modern society.
The term was introduced in the late thirties by European liberal scholars to promote a new form of liberalism after interest in classical liberalism had declined in Europe. In the decades that followed, neoliberal theory tended to be at variance with the more laissez-faire doctrine of classical liberalism and promoted instead a market economy under the guidance and rules of a strong state, a model which came to be known as the social market economy. In the sixties, usage of the term "neoliberal" heavily declined. When the term was reintroduced in the following decades, the meaning had shifted. The term neoliberal is now normally associated with laissez-faire economic policies, and is used mainly by those who are critical of legislative market reform.

^ The bolded sections sum up the Australian Liberals to a T

[USEC_OFFICER]

US liberal is for personal liberty.
AUS liberal is for corporate liberty.

Ah, danke.

[Jimmy]

On the subject of gun control: Seriously. Not a big deal, even automatic weapons. With a moderate amount of experience, you can turn this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Into this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Source: DIY Shovel AK - Man builds AK47 out of a shovel.

And if metalwork just isn't your thing and you're more of a computer guy, a 3D printer and some free schematics from online will get you everything you need to manufacture your own AR-15 assault rifle:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Source: “Download this gun”: 3D-printed semi-automatic fires over 600 rounds

I don't honestly know what the laws regarding gun possession in Australia are. Likely not as lenient as in the USA, where making your own gun isn't illegal. Still, the technology is available for anyone to make a gun if they're determined to have one.

[kingfisher1112]

Ah. Port Arthur. Well. This is the point where I turn into one of those tinfoil hat bastards. So I'm going to try and hold restraint in that area.
The gun buyback was a stupid idea. You know why? Because people just walked around the back, and grabbed the guns back and the clerks got paid. And, if they didn't do that, then they bought more guns. As evidenced here:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/files/2013/01/bulletins_australia_spring_2011.pdf
Gun deaths did decrease. But, the thing is, it cut down the amount of gun-holding households by nearly half. The half left are mostly people who have legitimate reasons to own them. That is why the rate decreased, because the people enjoying guns and did not buy them for looks or such, and were actually interested in target shooting or hunting, and not the ones who wanted to kill people, were the majority now. It is a pain to own a gun now. It is harder to get one. That is a good thing. The harder they are to keep, the less likely some casual guy will try and shoot himself. And, semiautos and shotguns do have a use. Farmers. Sometimes dogs or other wild creatures will come along and attack livestock, and fast firing is necessary to finish them off before they run away and come back to cause more damage. Shotguns? Birdfrite. Small grenades that make a loud bang, scaring off birds.
So, my point? More types, more background checks, less deaths, happy gun users.
Final thing. Then back on topic.

[Reelya]

US liberal is for personal liberty.
AUS liberal is for corporate liberty.

Ah, danke.

Yup, except check what I edited above, old-style Neoliberalism is Corporate-Liberty Statism. So they're basically like Establishment Republicans, not Libertarian economics types.

[Max White]

Likely not as lenient as in the USA, where making your own gun isn't illegal. Still, the technology is available for anyone to make a gun if they're determined to have one.

Yea, unlicensed production and modification is illegal here. Using a saw to turn your shot gun into a sawn-off is illegal. Buying and using a scope fitting is legal, because it is a licensed part.

[Reudh]

Well.

Crean lacks charisma.
Gillard is not capable enough.
Rudd refuses.
Wong is too competent.

Yep, Labor's lost this one. (If anyone wonders why it's spelled Labor - american english, and not Labour - british english, it's because apparently in the 20s or so it was changed so we'd be more chummy with the murricans.)


Also, I warn you all again: STOP WITH THE GUN DEBATE. Take it to PM or I lock the thread.

[Sheb]

Well, you cannot print a full gun, what they managed to do is basically to print a handle. Cool stuff, but you'll look silly trying to kill anyone with that if you don't have the AR-15 that goes with your piece of plastic.

As for the AK, it's a pain in the butt to make, and the guys also bought some parts (like a barrel blank) that are harder to manufacture alone.

[kingfisher1112]

Well, you cannot print a full gun, what they managed to do is basically to print a handle. Cool stuff, but you'll look silly trying to kill anyone with that if you don't have the AR-15 that goes with your piece of plastic.

As for the AK, it's a pain in the butt to make, and the guys also bought some parts (like a barrel blank) that are harder to manufacture alone.

Dude, he just said stop. So stop with the guns.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Yup, except check what I edited above, old-style Neoliberalism is Corporate-Liberty Statism. So they're basically like Establishment Republicans, not Libertarian economics types.

Bah, I'm going to jump out of this conversation before I lose myself in the minute of political theory. Thanks for all the help though.

[Max White]

Also, I warn you all again: STOP WITH THE GUN DEBATE. Take it to PM or I lock the thread.

Ok I'll be good.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

gun gun gun gun bang guns shooting gun gun statistics gun guns emotion guns guns

But anyway, does Abbot actually publicly deny climate change, or does he just not give a fuck?

[Reelya]

Ah. Port Arthur. Well. This is the point where I turn into one of those tinfoil hat bastards. So I'm going to try and hold restraint in that area.
The gun buyback was a stupid idea. You know why? Because people just walked around the back, and grabbed the guns back and the clerks got paid. And, if they didn't do that, then they bought more guns. As evidenced here:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/files/2013/01/bulletins_australia_spring_2011.pdf
Gun deaths did decrease. But, the thing is, it cut down the amount of gun-holding households by nearly half. The half left are mostly people who have legitimate reasons to own them. That is why the rate decreased, because the people enjoying guns and did not buy them for looks or such, and were actually interested in target shooting or hunting, and not the ones who wanted to kill people, were the majority now. It is a pain to own a gun now. It is harder to get one. That is a good thing. The harder they are to keep, the less likely some casual guy will try and shoot himself. And, semiautos and shotguns do have a use. Farmers. Sometimes dogs or other wild creatures will come along and attack livestock, and fast firing is necessary to finish them off before they run away and come back to cause more damage. Shotguns? Birdfrite. Small grenades that make a loud bang, scaring off birds.
So, my point? More types, more background checks, less deaths, happy gun users.
Final thing. Then back on topic.

Not sure how this relates making guns easier to get now. You've said it's stupid then given proof that it wasn't stupid.

[Max White]

And then there's that completely unrelated 65% drop in gun suicides since the buyback. You can cite all the anecdotes you like, I'll go off the ABS statistics.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

gun guns gun numbers gun gun guns gun suicide gun gun

[Osmosis Jones]

But anyway, does Abbot actually publicly deny climate change, or does he just not give a fuck?

Depends on when you talk to him. He ranges from thinking it's possible but overblown, to this

At an October 2009 meeting in the Victorian town of Beaufort, Abbott was reported to have said: "The argument is absolute crap... However, the politics of this are tough for us. 80% of people believe climate change is a real and present danger". On 1 December 2009, when questioned about that statement, he said he had used "a bit of hyperbole" at that meeting rather than it being his "considered position".

The fact is though; there is ridiculous levels of consensus that it's real. That he doubts it shows a profound misunderstanding of the basic science, and that's not what I want in a leader.

Also, Reelya man, I agree with you, but drop the gun stuff hey?

[Max White]

So yea, he pretty much has to agree with the science for popular opinion, but personally he doesn't agree thus won't do anything. Because politicians get paid to push their personal views, rather than the best interest of their electorate, right? Who cares about the people if you have a bone to pick! Just ask Gillard about gay marriage, she will tell you.