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[Tiruin]

Okami: Why follow LNCP instead of Toony?

Because she's second on my scum-list, and it pays to not take predictable actions.

LNCP and Toony are both male.
...
All remaining players are male.

*Tiruin returns to deadchat, where party is to be had.

[Hapah]

Hapah - I assume you have a reason for not claiming.  Please either claim, or explain why you choose not to.

I have a reason, and you'll get it soon enough.

The thing that concerns me at the moment, though, is that I didn't randomize LNCP (or anyone, for that matter). And Toaster said that the Scroll of Slowing wins out over a Scroll of Misdirection, but LNCP claims he was randomized or redirected.

[lordnincompoop]

Okami claims to have followed me. This is confirmed, because he knows I visited Toony.
I Slowed Toony. Okami can confirm that I took an action, at least. That means he couldn't take an action last night. I was also redirected to Toony.
Toony claims a Misdirection that backfired. This is a lie, because I Slowed him, which comes out on top of his own action.
Hapah claims no action yet, but he is the only candidate for the Redirect/Misdirect.

Okami, do you have a case on me/Deathsword? Why do you think my action is a votable reason?

How does that work?  If it's another delay my "supposed" kill from the night before last should have went through.  I used a Scroll of Misdirection last night which redirects anybody who targets me too so that doesn't make any sense.  Plus, if you wanted to target me in the first place why did you have to get "redirected" by someone...oh I get it.  My redirect redirected onto myself...

I don't really know all that much about these mechanics, tbh. I was under the impression it would just delay/slow, period.

This is why I don't really like BYORs, KOTM and Roguelikes. You get bogged up in technicals, and in web's KOTM I think everyone just ended up making breaking strategies every round.

Oh, and you're lying. I also don't like how you're going with this "oh I get it" crap; it didn't work when SK-Dariush tried it, and you're not doing it any better.

Come on, this is just a repeat of yesterday.  Except I don't know if it's you or Hapah, I'm gonna lean on you for now until Hapah gives some insight.  I don't think I can warrant a vote though (because again, I don't know which it is and it's mylo).

I was pretty confident this slow would work. I'm going to have to look at Toaster's FAQ soon.

Unless they were busy setting somebody else up.

I knew someone would say that, so I mentioned my counterpoint in your quoted post; I didn't think, however, that you'd read it, then go ahead and say this anyway.

Using the kill last night would have guaranteed the win for scum. There would be no reason to think someone had an item to prevent that. There is not reason not to use the kill and extend this yet another day.

Were finals kicking your ass or something LNCP?  You didn't vote yesterday either.

I had a very important test yesterday, yes. I was confident D3 was LYLO (which it was, until alamoes got modkilled) and didn't expect it to drag on like this. I also didn't keep track of the end date to my detriment.

I'd normally replace out of a game in this situation, but I'm the one replacing in.

LNCP: If you were 1 scum with 4 players left, as we are now, would you use the NK? I can kinda see both sides, but I want to pick your brain a little.

Hapah: I would. That close to a win, I don't see a reason why I'd want to risk keeping Town alive instead of pushing to LYLO.

LNCP lying about originally targeting you?

I misunderstood her night action claim.

Dude, practice your reading comprehension.

[Okami No Rei]

Okami, do you have a case on me/Deathsword? Why do you think my action is a votable reason?

Because Hapah might have used a protect on Toony.  If you tried to kill Toony last night, rather than slow him, then Toony's Misdirect would have redirected you to Toony, and Hapah still has an action unaccounted for.

Hapah: I would. That close to a win, I don't see a reason why I'd want to risk keeping Town alive instead of pushing to LYLO.

WIFOM.  You haven't killed yet, implying you aren't scum.  I don't buy it.

You don't see a reason?  The biggest one is that the random distribution of powers each night means there's no way scum can be reasonably confident of pulling off a kill undetected.  Not with this many players left.  So the best option is to lie low, put on your best Town face, and burn all those useless items you've accumulated over the course of the game, trusting to the Random Number God to supply you with, say, a day-kill like the one that got Vector, or some other combination of items, that can assure the win.  All the while Town gets more and more paranoid due to the constant MYLO, and eventually solves your problem for you by Lynching/NKing one of their own.  It's risky, but not as risky as using the Mafiakill.

You're smart.  I don't believe you never thought it through that far.

[Okami No Rei]

Toony - Did you receive any indication that your Scroll of Misdirection actually fired, or that you were delayed?

[Okami No Rei]

Toony - You were all set to NoLynch with four left yesterday.  Why not today?

[ToonyMan]

Toony - Did you receive any indication that your Scroll of Misdirection actually fired, or that you were delayed?

My Scroll of Misdirection definitely worked (otherwise why the heck would LNCP claim it before I even posted, and Hapah claims he didn't do it).  Looking over, I don't think I was actually delayed (I sort of skimmed my PM before reading LNCP's first post) and I don't see anything that indicates a delay, otherwise the Slowing > Misdirection would make zero sense anyway.  But this also makes zero sense because why would LNCP claim something I could disprove so easily?  Hapah really needs to post.

Toony - You were all set to NoLynch with four left yesterday.  Why not today?

I'll vote LNCP if there's concrete proof.  I'd really like Hapah to make his claim first, especially since it would probably create multiple indications.  Otherwise I'm going to vote NoLynch again like I explained yesterday.

Although I'm fairly confident LNCP is our mafia right now.  What he fails to realize is that my "kill" from N3 should have happened N4, it didn't, because I'm not mafia (he even SAYS here that mafia would have no reason not to kill N3 and AGAIN here for N4).  And that's what I find most damning right now.

But still, Hapah, post.

[lordnincompoop]

I agree with Toony. What I want to see most before Thursday is Hapah's claim and opinions.

Because Hapah might have used a protect on Toony.  If you tried to kill Toony last night, rather than slow him, then Toony's Misdirect would have redirected you to Toony, and Hapah still has an action unaccounted for.

So... What? I might've used a kill, and since Toony's alive, it's scummy because Hapah might've also prevented that kill?

I'm just disappointed.

Hapah: I would. That close to a win, I don't see a reason why I'd want to risk keeping Town alive instead of pushing to LYLO.

WIFOM.  You haven't killed yet, implying you aren't scum.  I don't buy it.

You pull out one more by-the-book "scumtell" and I'll slap you upside the head. It has pissed me off for a very long time how new players would just clumsily pull cards without knowing what they mean; you don't get to copy-paste a term from one of those guides, put it in bold, and call that a point. It doesn't work that way outside a BM.

You don't see a reason?  The biggest one is that the random distribution of powers each night means there's no way scum can be reasonably confident of pulling off a kill undetected.  Not with this many players left.  So the best option is to lie low, put on your best Town face, and burn all those useless items you've accumulated over the course of the game, trusting to the Random Number God to supply you with, say, a day-kill like the one that got Vector, or some other combination of items, that can assure the win.  All the while Town gets more and more paranoid due to the constant MYLO, and eventually solves your problem for you by Lynching/NKing one of their own.  It's risky, but not as risky as using the Mafiakill.

You're smart.  I don't believe you never thought it through that far.

What makes you think you're the night-game authority? I'll repeat myself: I'd go for it anyway, because a kill is just about the most powerful asset in a scum player's tool-bag, and it's a shame not to use it (unless there are some clear reasons not to, instead of hypotheticals). I appreciate your read on the situation, and it might even be the better analysis here, but Hapah asked what I thought. That's what I thought.

I've never played an RG up until now, much less read any of the games in detail. I've played in exactly one BYOR, where I got NKed N1, if I'm not mistaken. I played one round of KOTM, where I almost stopped participating because the entire game had devolved into players trying to find a breaking strategy with the roleclaims instead of talking to each other. The reason is that I detest games with masses of actions and power roles like these, with lots of catches and what-ifs and specific situations to account for; I've never liked spending energy doing that, and I've never been particularly good at it. I'm flattered that you think I'm a clever bird, but your expectations are one thing.

Although I'm fairly confident LNCP is our mafia right now.  What he fails to realize is that my "kill" from N3 should have happened N4, it didn't, because I'm not mafia (he even SAYS here that mafia would have no reason not to kill N3 and AGAIN here for N4).  And that's what I find most damning right now.

I've said before that I don't really know what kinds of exceptions are in place for a Slow, and there wasn't really anything to refer to in that respect before Toaster posted all that (which I haven't gotten to). I won't know until tomorrow evening, either, because I literally have all of 10 minutes to write this post.

Toony, I don't like how you've been riding on other people's suspicions up until now. You replace in on D3 and vote ZU only after I write that WoT, and now after a fairly suspicionless D4 (IIRC; I couldn't pay that close attention) and early D5 you state it as me after Okami publishes the beginnings of a case. I know finals are kicking your ass too, but can't you think for yourself?

[ToonyMan]

Toony, I don't like how you've been riding on other people's suspicions up until now. You replace in on D3 and vote ZU only after I write that WoT, and now after a fairly suspicionless D4 (IIRC; I couldn't pay that close attention) and early D5 you state it as me after Okami publishes the beginnings of a case. I know finals are kicking your ass too, but can't you think for yourself?

Well, I was mainly pointing at Hapah yesterday since he was making the same case you're making to me today.  I highly doubt Okami is mafia, it makes zero sense no matter how I think about it.  What I really would have liked is to roll a scroll of inspect or something yesterday, but going on mainly typical scum-hunting it's definitely either LNCP or Hapah.  I have flip-flopped, but I would prefer to make the right choice in mylo if we're going to lynch.  The fact our claims don't match up would be another damning point honestly.

[ToonyMan]

I just don't want BYOR11 to happen again, and it was Hapah that time...

[Hapah]

I'd be more than happy to post, Toony, but you haven't answered my question.

[ToonyMan]

I'd be more than happy to post, Toony, but you haven't answered my question.

I know you're being vague here, but I don't really know what I should be answering unless you're a bit more specific.

[Okami No Rei]

Toony, how many was it?

Toony - I think he means "How many actions targeted you last night?"  You did claim to use a Scroll of Knowledge N3, so that should have triggered last night.  It tells you all of the actions you were targeted with.  Hapah may or may not have targeted you, LNCP did, so it's either one or two.  Your knowing the correct answer verifies your claim from yesterday.

[Okami No Rei]

In fact, it's kind of suspicious that you didn't pipe up with that claim in the first place.  Why not?

[ToonyMan]

Toony, how many was it?

Toony - I think he means "How many actions targeted you last night?"  You did claim to use a Scroll of Knowledge N3, so that should have triggered last night.  It tells you all of the actions you were targeted with.  Hapah may or may not have targeted you, LNCP did, so it's either one or two.  Your knowing the correct answer verifies your claim from yesterday.

Oh, it's one.

In fact, it's kind of suspicious that you didn't pipe up with that claim in the first place.  Why not?

Because I didn't think it would matter with my Misdirection claim on top of it (remember, I never mentioned my Enchanted Weapon yesterday until you talked about, mainly because we still aren't in that mass-claim stage and there's no reason to let the mafia have all the info right now).  I asked Toaster earlier about what would happen if the two are overlapped and he said only the ones that actually ended up targeting me would be counted in such a case.