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[10ebbor10]

Does that count for Non american astronauts too? Probably yes, but not sure.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hmm...

What about unarmed combat?

Advantage: Caveman

As previously stipulated, everyone in the air force, even the accountants, gets combat training. Everyone. The astronaut would know how to use a knife.

I never argued that. I only argued that he would have used a knife or whatever in actual combat, which he wouldn't have.
Because modern combat is one gunfight you don't want to be left with a knife in.
And medieval astronauts are, sadly, imaginary.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Astronaut has size, intelligence, and training. All he lacks is experience. I'd still put my money on the astronaut.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Again, the caveman has intelligence and training, just not education, and his training is practicals rather than tests.

And also again, we don't know enough about the scenario.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Advantage, I meant to say. The astronaut has the advantage in those categories.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not convinced he has an edge in intelligence or training. Sure, the astronaut's training is more formal, but the caveman's is more practical. Intelligence is also rather difficult to assert unless you measure it in education level, which isn't useful in a fight. And while the astronaut may be taller, he also has an atrophied musculoskeletal system, unlike the caveman.

[Remuthra]

I'm not convinced he has an edge in intelligence or training. Sure, the astronaut's training is more formal, but the caveman's is more practical. Intelligence is also rather difficult to assert unless you measure it in education level, which isn't useful in a fight. And while the astronaut may be taller, he also has an atrophied musculoskeletal system, unlike the caveman.

The caveman would also not be as used to fighting humans. There were a lot more predators to fight and a lot less people.

[Urist_McDrowner]

I'm not convinced he has an edge in intelligence or training. Sure, the astronaut's training is more formal, but the caveman's is more practical. Intelligence is also rather difficult to assert unless you measure it in education level, which isn't useful in a fight. And while the astronaut may be taller, he also has an atrophied musculoskeletal system, unlike the caveman.

Not neccessarily. We don't know when he was last in space

[GreatWyrmGold]

-snip

The caveman would also not be as used to fighting humans. There were a lot more predators to fight and a lot less people.

And this would make it harder to fight an astronaut, how?

Firstly, cavemen didn't never fight each other. Beast fights were more common, sure, but the Stone Age wasn't an era of peace, enlightenment, and free love, you know.
Secondly, the astronaut would be just about as useless in melee combat, assuming that it was in fact an "average" astronaut who never got in a brawl to the death or even injury and hasn't thought about such fights since he was trained.
Thirdly, if a caveman can beat a bear with a spear and a friend, chances are he can best a rusty-with-melee, atrophied astronaut using a knife or club.

I'm not convinced he has an edge in intelligence or training. Sure, the astronaut's training is more formal, but the caveman's is more practical. Intelligence is also rather difficult to assert unless you measure it in education level, which isn't useful in a fight. And while the astronaut may be taller, he also has an atrophied musculoskeletal system, unlike the caveman.

Not neccessarily. We don't know when he was last in space

It's more recently than the caveman was. And, remember, the caveman presumably gets into fights with animals or people regularly, not to mention other heavy labor that would come up. Cavemen weren't wimps, and astronauts...well.
Besides, referring to him as an "astronaut" implies a certain recency to the space expedition.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Even with rudimentary martial arts training, the Astronaut would be able to do things the caveman wouldn't know how to respond to. How will the caveman respond to an armbar? A filipino grip on the knife handle? Even a parry more elegant than swatting with the hand?

[GreatWyrmGold]

By hitting back?

Cavemen are uneducated, not stupid.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Have you been in such a confrontation? If I've got you in an armbar, struggle violently and without direction is the last thing you want to do.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not sure an atrophied astronaut could get and hold any kind of armlock on an angry caveman who is actively trying to kill the astronaut. And don't say the caveman wouldn't know what the astronaut's doing--2013 or 13,000 BC, black belt or brown bear, you don't want to be on the receiving end of an enemy's grapple.

[Urist_McDrowner]

Astronauts have to lift when they return and eat a lot for that exact reason. I don't think his strength is a factor, if anything, he could eat better to maintain his strength.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Astronauts have to lift when they return and eat a lot for that exact reason. I don't think his strength is a factor, if anything, he could eat better to maintain his strength.

They need to work to maintain their musculoskeletal systems. Cavemen keep theirs through a life of hard work. And while he could eat better to meet the strength of an average caveman, the caveman could also lift rocks in absence of any other recreation.