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[Naryar]

Oh, it -was- a ground attack mission.

[Jopax]

The p-51 really isn't meant to go that low, also I'm not sure if the one in the mission is stock or not since that makes a world of difference.

It really does shine in RB though where it has a very nice combination of things that make it rather forgiving if you're not that great and rather scary if you know what you're doing.

[Erkki]

IRL, the (Packard-Merlin engine, not the first ones with Allison) shone only above 6000 - 6500 m but not because it was made to fly there, but simply because that was the altitude of highest top level speed for Luftwaffe fighters, excluding Ta 152 and the jets.

Any tips on killing the T-34s with lower Br tanks frontally in RB? HEAT rounds on short 75mm seem too finicky to pen even with slight elevation, APCR on short 50mm (that can pen KV-1 front weakspots) bounces with slightest angling? Turret front's not vulnerable except for mod 40. Even the hull mg seems to benefit from 60 deg, or have I gotten it wrong- I remember hearing it'd be THE weakspot of T-34. Getting tired facing fleets of T-34s with only slightly less annoying T-50s scurrying around allday erryday when taking the panzers for outing. Flanking them isn't always the option, that'd require teamwork

I dont think there are any good tricks, the T-34s and first Shermans just are a bit under-BVd and face tanks that dont stand a chance against them.

For the T-34 when using short or long 5 cm: get close, use APCR, go for the hull if its unangled or you have its side and the turret ring if it isnt. Actually even if you have ones side, shoot the turret at least once to attempt to stop it from firing back. Short 75 mm? Almost hopeless. In WT, the T-34's driver hatch and MG port actually are not weakspots. Don't shoot them.

Against the Sherman M4A1, get close and use APCR again(unless you have clear shot at its side) and shoot first the turret right of the gun(left side of frontal silhouette) as that will take out the gunner. The next Sherman, M4, has a thick extra armor plate protecting the gunner so you pretty much have to shoot the other side of the turret and then move to shoot the hull and pray for an ammo rack hit. Killing one may need over a dozen penetrations...

[Naryar]

So. German rb. More precisely the BF109 G2. Gunpods, because don't have enough dakka to be decent with a single MG151.

>Climb up to 4000m, mostly as quick as I can
>See spit and typhoon 1-2km above me
>target something lower
>go down, get attacked
>Wing ripped off

Another game
>Climb up to 5000m
>Suddenly yak-9T on my six outta nowhere (and yet I frequently use the keypad and look to my sides to not fail at spatial awareness)
>Attempt to defend myself
>Wing ripped off

And that's only today. Lastly in the last German-Soviet event I have done mostly the same thing in my BF109. Not to mention the constant overheating if you want to climb with WEP.

I do a bit better in the A5, and the only fun plane in RB in Germany is my beloved stuka.

So, what ? Is german RB Masochism Thunder ? Am I doing it wrong ? Should I dive to safety every time I see an enemy above me, therefore losing 75% of my alt and having yet again 5 minutes of unfun climbing ?

Fuck that.

[ukulele]

Do NOT use pods in Real battles, a single 20mm is enough to take down any enemy fighter and all that firepower isnt good for anything if you lose all your aircrafts performance for it. Always look for spots on the horizon to know where enemies are (you dont need to wait for the arificial spot to happen, so there is no excuse to being engaged upon without knowing). Also if the only german plane you enjoy is the stuka its probably becouse you are not energy fighting properly wich is required on all the german planes after tier 1.

Climb WEPing as much as you can (altitude and speed are life) you will start knowing when to climb forward (when you outclimb the oponents) or climb to the side to gain more altitude and arrive later to the fight when usually enemy fighters are already engaged (when they climb faster than you). Engage from top to bottom, planes that are high are usually a lot more dangerous and pilots that climb usually know what they are doing, do not dive after you spot the first bomber 4km below you, whats the point in climbing if you are going to throw it all away for a useless kill. If you still get outclimbed, learn to dodge atacks, usually a slight turn while diving under them is all that it takes and most players will lose their advantage after 1 or 2 atempts at you. If you spot a "pixel enemy" and see its higher than you, dont keep going in his direction, climb to the side or wait for him to engage other person THEN go for him.

Basically energy fighters and boom/zoomers depend a lot more on tactics and chosing when to engage than tight manouvers. Half the fight is won before engaging the other fighter.

Wall of text FTW.

[Aseaheru]

I image gunpods would be good in realistic tank battles...

[TheBronzePickle]

To those wondering how to take out the T-34 from the front:

The MG port /is/ a weak spot. It's a small weak spot, but it is a weak spot. The armor never goes above 45mm if you hit the actual mounting ball, and it's perfectly flat from the front. Shoot solid projectiles if you want to see a lot of internal bouncing, or shoot explosive to wreak havoc and maybe set off an ammo rack or fire.

[Erkki]

To those wondering how to take out the T-34 from the front:

The MG port /is/ a weak spot. It's a small weak spot, but it is a weak spot. The armor never goes above 45mm if you hit the actual mounting ball, and it's perfectly flat from the front. Shoot solid projectiles if you want to see a lot of internal bouncing, or shoot explosive to wreak havoc and maybe set off an ammo rack or fire.

Yeah it is very very tiny a weak spot, but most of the immediate surrounding area is thicker in effective armor than the rest of the front hull even if that hull is facing directly towards you. I think usually the best idea is to just shoot the turret(if there is enough pen available) or the fairly exposed turret ring.

[TheBronzePickle]

Actually, the surrounding part is also almost completely flat and, with the exception of the T-34-85 models, not significantly thicker. Even for the -85, the armor there is still thin enough that even a 50mm shot can penetrate it relatively easily.

The T-34's hull armor isn't thick at all, it's well-sloped and face-hardened so it bounces shells easily. When you hit the armor flat, it shatters like glass. For the T-34-85, the only reason you want to shoot the turret ring is if it's hull-down, because the turret ring actually has a good amount of armor. For all others, either target pretty much ensures penetration.

[Erkki]

Actually, the surrounding part is also almost completely flat and, with the exception of the T-34-85 models, not significantly thicker. Even for the -85, the armor there is still thin enough that even a 50mm shot can penetrate it relatively easily.

The T-34's hull armor isn't thick at all, it's well-sloped and face-hardened so it bounces shells easily. When you hit the armor flat, it shatters like glass. For the T-34-85, the only reason you want to shoot the turret ring is if it's hull-down, because the turret ring actually has a good amount of armor. For all others, either target pretty much ensures penetration.

The surrounding area still has higher nominal thickness than the rest of the front. Remember that when its shot at an angle(which is almost always) the shell may need to penetrate two layers of armor. I dont bother going after it...

edit: also armor quality and hardness apparently isnt modeled in WT. Or well, one of the King Tigers suffers 5% from "low quality late war German steel" or similar nonsense and there is no information about it at all inside the game.

[TheBronzePickle]

I don't know if they've changed it since the last time I shot a T-34 in the MG port, but nominal thickness isn't really a significant issue. Nor is needing to penetrate two layers of armor, in most cases. If you can shoot the MG port area reliably, you're more than likely going to penetrate it unless you either miss or manage to clip it right on the edge. The MG port is quite literally the most reliable way to damage any T-34 from the front, and if you can't shoot it, it's either hull down or you have the much weaker and less-sloped sides or rear to hit.

[Erkki]

I don't know if they've changed it since the last time I shot a T-34 in the MG port, but nominal thickness isn't really a significant issue. Nor is needing to penetrate two layers of armor, in most cases. If you can shoot the MG port area reliably, you're more than likely going to penetrate it unless you either miss or manage to clip it right on the edge. The MG port is quite literally the most reliable way to damage any T-34 from the front, and if you can't shoot it, it's either hull down or you have the much weaker and less-sloped sides or rear to hit.

No, you really are better off not aiming there at all. The MG ball that is only 30 mm is at the end of a 60 mm cone. There are parts where the effective thickness from typical shooting angles is smaller than the front plates but those are tiny and missing them makes the shell hit thicker armor. The flat parts of the turret front armor (presuming it aims the shooter) are equally large targets and hitting them will stop it from firing back quite often.

But then again the T-34 series isnt really the worst problem for the Germans... The über-durable Shermans are.

[TheBronzePickle]

Speaking from personal experience, I have never once had a problem with penetrating the MG port, or being penetrated through the MG port for that matter. German guns are more than accurate enough to hit the port from over a kilometer out recurrently. Even if the T-34 is angled, it's still not a hard shot and is very likely to go through.

As for the Shermans, they're not really 'durable' so much as they're spread out. The PzGr 39 doesn't really have the explosive power to wreak havoc in the crew compartment like it should, and Germany's solid shells tend to just overpenetrate instead of bouncing around. Not to mention the blatant fact that the DMs on the crew and ammo racks are screwed up for /all/ tanks and shell types, so even if the weapons do hit something important, it usually doesn't do what it should anyway.

[Erkki]

Speaking from personal experience, I have never once had a problem with penetrating the MG port, or being penetrated through the MG port for that matter. German guns are more than accurate enough to hit the port from over a kilometer out recurrently. Even if the T-34 is angled, it's still not a hard shot and is very likely to go through.

As for the Shermans, they're not really 'durable' so much as they're spread out. The PzGr 39 doesn't really have the explosive power to wreak havoc in the crew compartment like it should, and Germany's solid shells tend to just overpenetrate instead of bouncing around. Not to mention the blatant fact that the DMs on the crew and ammo racks are screwed up for /all/ tanks and shell types, so even if the weapons do hit something important, it usually doesn't do what it should anyway.

They are much more durable than T-34s because it takes considerably more penetrations(on the average) to take one out. Yeah, not having the remaining tip of the PzGr 39 shell continue through the target(or not giving it its true historical penetration, which goes to all German ammo) and modeling exploding shell deadliness purely by the mass of HE content results in all kinds of weird things...

It could help to have more stunning effects or something. You'd think a tank would be filled with smoke after a hit.

[Sonlirain]

I never had a problem with overpenetration really. It's more of a problem with shells ot dealing enough damage or doing almost f&%#all after entering.

Shell hitting a ammorack. Good job ol chap the ammotack is not green the APHE exploded barely damaging anything and the gunner with shrapnel in his left eye is not bearing donw on your ta... oh you are already dead since the american shell penetrated the frontal armor went through the drivers head gunners leg bounced off the turret ring into the engine and left the tank from the other side instakilling it.

This is what i see most of the time.

Overpenetration is not a problem. Inefective german APHE shells and magical american ammoracks are the problem.