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[Erils]

]Without knowing what's failing for you it's hard to suggest anything

Yeah, you don't dogfight in US planes. You fly in and shoot them for a second or two while you can and then you run, because unless you're facing a really shitty German plane you're probably not out-turning anyone, at least not long enough to kill them.

One of the biggest problems I seem to have is actually killing someone. I've tried dog-fighting and I've tried dropping on planes from above, but I can't seem to kill. I fill the other plane with holes and usually get a lot of hits, but they never go down. Then some other plane 1-shots my pilot from behind or above with its machine guns.

[Sonlirain]

]Without knowing what's failing for you it's hard to suggest anything

Yeah, you don't dogfight in US planes. You fly in and shoot them for a second or two while you can and then you run, because unless you're facing a really shitty German plane you're probably not out-turning anyone, at least not long enough to kill them.

One of the biggest problems I seem to have is actually killing someone. I've tried dog-fighting and I've tried dropping on planes from above, but I can't seem to kill. I fill the other plane with holes and usually get a lot of hits, but they never go down. Then some other plane 1-shots my pilot from behind or above with its machine guns.

If you fly in arcade i'd suggest aiming a TINY bit ahead of the magic circle because it targets the center of the planes model... basically meaning you are shooting the fuselage... and you won't do any real damage in arcade with MGs by making holes in the fuselage.

[sluissa]

]Without knowing what's failing for you it's hard to suggest anything

Yeah, you don't dogfight in US planes. You fly in and shoot them for a second or two while you can and then you run, because unless you're facing a really shitty German plane you're probably not out-turning anyone, at least not long enough to kill them.

One of the biggest problems I seem to have is actually killing someone. I've tried dog-fighting and I've tried dropping on planes from above, but I can't seem to kill. I fill the other plane with holes and usually get a lot of hits, but they never go down. Then some other plane 1-shots my pilot from behind or above with its machine guns.

If you fly in arcade i'd suggest aiming a TINY bit ahead of the magic circle because it targets the center of the planes model... basically meaning you are shooting the fuselage... and you won't do any real damage in arcade with MGs by making holes in the fuselage.

Yeah, from my experience the aiming circle is more of a guideline than a "shoot here to win" dot.  You still have to compensate if your enemy is doing anything but flying in a straight line, and you still have to compensate for bullet drop if you're a good distance away and you haven't changed a specific setting(I leave the bullet drop compensation off because I've gotten used to it at this point. but it might be better for some people to have it on.)  I almost always have to lead the circle by a significant amount to hit the plane, and that usually only gets me onto the tail of the plane, it's usually even more than that to get it on the engine/pilot.

But yeah, usually getting RIGHT on someone's tail and shooting at them isn't the best way to kill them. Some planes have armor from that direction, it also gives you a very narrow profile to hit and puts a lot of plane between your bullets and the more vulnerable sections. It's almost always best to try to hit them when they're showing their top or bottom to you, either when they're trying to turn across your path or when you dive down onto them or swoop up from under them.

[Imofexios]

Now i just realised that i need nice joystick to fly with and actually play this game.
Any suggestions on not cheapest but average good stick to do well in flight sims?

And does Bay12 have active squadron going on?
I'm so exited about the Tanks that are rolling in to the game soon. Ads some hopefully more tactical purpose to fights =)

[ukulele]

You only need a joystick if you are flying full real battles. Id go as far as to say that using a joystick is a disadvantage in arcade and historical.

[10ebbor10]

You don't need a fancy joystick to play.  A keyboard and mouse are superior in almost all situations. I mean, I have a $60 joystick, but I can easily get twice as many kills as normal by not using. Though it's to be said that you can pull off more maneuvers using the stick, and it's more fun, the simple fact is that mouse aiming is much more accurate.

You only need a joystick if you are flying full real battles. Id go as far as to say that using a joystick is a disadvantage in arcade and historical.

Haven't played full real, but yes, a joystick is a disadvantage. It's a fun disadvantage though.

[Imofexios]

Ahh bummer
But i buy one anyways. Maybe some other sim offers the benefit having one

[Naryar]

Mouse aim is just fine.

At least it's less masochistic than touchpad aim.

[FritzPL]

Aiming with a touchpad in Warthunder is like landing in Calais in 1944. I tried once, then left the game after a minute.

[Naryar]

Aiming with a touchpad in Warthunder is like landing in Calais in 1944. I tried once, then left the game after a minute.

Well, I did that for 2 weeks. Also, never again.

Kinda like playing Street Fighter with a keyboard.

Unsurprisingly my kill count quadrupled at least after that.

[sluissa]

Okay... I've decided I hate the new progression system. Every feature I've come across (barring one, which I'll get to later) I've absolutely hated.

Spoiler: Longer rant than I realized (click to show/hide)

I could get used to the new UI elements, even though I feel they're clunky at the moment and it takes me longer to do things than it used to.

I'm okay with the new flight models and damage models and how everything seems more fragile. I was okay with it before, but this isn't bad either.

But this progression system pushes things over the edge. I'd always thought this game was the grindiest of the games of this sort out there. But they've gone and made it worse, and while I'd threatened to quit several times, accepted it and slowly gotten used to it, they've gone and made it worse, much worse, and I don't think I can stand for it any longer. Maybe they're still on the balancing act period of this new update, but even if they roll back the difficulty a little, I don't see them returning to where they were, and as I said, where they were was right at the knife edge of what I was willing to accept.

It's not so much the numbers on the research tree. Those are sort of reasonable, if we were still working under the old system. But we're not. The XP that we gain now is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the XP we gained before. I'm not sure of the exact ratio, but where I was earning 10-15k XP on a good game before, I'm lucky if I get near 1k aircraft research now. I just don't feel like there's any sense of progression anymore. You've got bars filling up, but it's all confusing and that part of my brain which actually responds to those bars slowly filling isn't responding anymore. (I don't think I hit 1k aircraft xp in any of my battles even with the current 4x event going on)

You're also now forced to pick where you want to work on the tree. And where before you'd just get a bunch of planes dumped in your lap, now you have to decide. Those decisions aren't always easy. I'm looking at the American tree now and I honestly don't want to touch any of the next tier of planes. I'm not interested in the B-17s, even though I'll be forced to research them. The P-51 is a classic, but I've heard so many horror stories about it in the game, I'd just planned on avoiding it altogether. Besides, you never see it being flown outside of historical events with plane limitations. That leaves the F8F which, I honestly know nothing about and it doesn't excite me to have it in front of me to unlock. And the rest of the trees aren't much better. Before, it was just a slow steady crawl through the level numbers to my goal of jets, but now I just feel like I'm working on things which I don't want.

The one redeeming feature is since now the tiers are compressed a bit, you've got planes meeting up now which never did before, and while that might be a bit unfair at the upper tiers as it's always been when jets meet props, I just giggled with joy when I made a P-38 absolutely explode in mid air with my tier 1 Lagg-3-8.

Am I giving up on the game?
Not yet. I'll wait and see how they handle rebalancing all of this.
Will I give up on the game if they don't fix it to my liking?
I'm not sure yet. It's still one of the most fun multiplayer flight sims around. I do have fun when I fly. But even if I don't quit completely, you won't find me grinding anymore, for basically any reason no matter what sort of event they put on. Even Golden Eagles couldn't fix this problem. So I'll probably just make do with what I've got unlocked already, and if I unlock anything in the process, eh, it's there.

What it has done is given me a grim outlook for ground forces. If this is what I can expect from the bottom up on a whole new set of vehicles, I'm just going to say no thanks.

TL;DR: No sir, I don't like it. Grind is even grindier and Ground forces might be completely off the table for me as a result.

[Erils]

Okay... I've decided I hate the new progression system. Every feature I've come across (barring one, which I'll get to later) I've absolutely hated.

Spoiler: Longer rant than I realized (click to show/hide)

I could get used to the new UI elements, even though I feel they're clunky at the moment and it takes me longer to do things than it used to.

I'm okay with the new flight models and damage models and how everything seems more fragile. I was okay with it before, but this isn't bad either.

But this progression system pushes things over the edge. I'd always thought this game was the grindiest of the games of this sort out there. But they've gone and made it worse, and while I'd threatened to quit several times, accepted it and slowly gotten used to it, they've gone and made it worse, much worse, and I don't think I can stand for it any longer. Maybe they're still on the balancing act period of this new update, but even if they roll back the difficulty a little, I don't see them returning to where they were, and as I said, where they were was right at the knife edge of what I was willing to accept.

It's not so much the numbers on the research tree. Those are sort of reasonable, if we were still working under the old system. But we're not. The XP that we gain now is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the XP we gained before. I'm not sure of the exact ratio, but where I was earning 10-15k XP on a good game before, I'm lucky if I get near 1k aircraft research now. I just don't feel like there's any sense of progression anymore. You've got bars filling up, but it's all confusing and that part of my brain which actually responds to those bars slowly filling isn't responding anymore. (I don't think I hit 1k aircraft xp in any of my battles even with the current 4x event going on)

You're also now forced to pick where you want to work on the tree. And where before you'd just get a bunch of planes dumped in your lap, now you have to decide. Those decisions aren't always easy. I'm looking at the American tree now and I honestly don't want to touch any of the next tier of planes. I'm not interested in the B-17s, even though I'll be forced to research them. The P-51 is a classic, but I've heard so many horror stories about it in the game, I'd just planned on avoiding it altogether. Besides, you never see it being flown outside of historical events with plane limitations. That leaves the F8F which, I honestly know nothing about and it doesn't excite me to have it in front of me to unlock. And the rest of the trees aren't much better. Before, it was just a slow steady crawl through the level numbers to my goal of jets, but now I just feel like I'm working on things which I don't want.

The one redeeming feature is since now the tiers are compressed a bit, you've got planes meeting up now which never did before, and while that might be a bit unfair at the upper tiers as it's always been when jets meet props, I just giggled with joy when I made a P-38 absolutely explode in mid air with my tier 1 Lagg-3-8.

Am I giving up on the game?
Not yet. I'll wait and see how they handle rebalancing all of this.
Will I give up on the game if they don't fix it to my liking?
I'm not sure yet. It's still one of the most fun multiplayer flight sims around. I do have fun when I fly. But even if I don't quit completely, you won't find me grinding anymore, for basically any reason no matter what sort of event they put on. Even Golden Eagles couldn't fix this problem. So I'll probably just make do with what I've got unlocked already, and if I unlock anything in the process, eh, it's there.

What it has done is given me a grim outlook for ground forces. If this is what I can expect from the bottom up on a whole new set of vehicles, I'm just going to say no thanks.

TL;DR: No sir, I don't like it. Grind is even grindier and Ground forces might be completely off the table for me as a result.

I have an idea to lighten the mood! Why don't we get a ton of bay12ers together and mess around? We could do stuff like ground races, formation flying or just go into an arcade game and all swarm the same guy.

[TheBronzePickle]

The thing about the tier system as they've got it now is you don't /have/ to get all the planes. You only need 4 of them, so you can basically just outright skip entire lines.

[Anvilfolk]

I would highly recommend the Thrustmaster T-16000m joystick. It has really, really good precision (better than many much more expensive joysticks), but is becoming a little hard to find. If you can find it for around $40-60, I think it's a pretty good purchase!

[sluissa]

The thing about the tier system as they've got it now is you don't /have/ to get all the planes. You only need 4 of them, so you can basically just outright skip entire lines.

It doesn't change the fact that we're earning less than 1/10th of what we were earning towards the next plane(s) before the update even though we still need roughly the same or more points than we did before to earn the same number of planes.

Being able to pick 1 or 2 lines to skip doesn't make that any better, especially considering that SOMEWHERE along that line of planes you choose to skip, might be a plane that interests you somewhat, and you can't just skip some of a line, if you want that plane, you have to research everything up to it.

Even the "free experience" that existed before has become more expensive as a result. If you WANTED to pay your way through it, it's going to cost even more now than it did before, which makes it even less of a desirable, or even possible option for me. I was VERY tempted to grab the Advanced starter pack with the planes and 10k gold at some point over the holidays before this update. No longer. Prior to this, with ~$45 worth of gold eagles I could have advanced myself all the way up to tier 15 in ANY of the nations. Now I'm looking at $35-40 worth of gold eagles to unlock a single tier 4 plane.