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[Sonlirain]

This is why in arcade the only good bombers are bombers with decent forward firepower like the later dornier (2 20 mm canons) or B-25 (array of machineguns).

[Naryar]

I would assume that bombers/attackers with good defensive gunners (H6K4 somewhat, Havoc, all the murrican bomber line and G8N1) would be good as well.

[Sonlirain]

I might be bad at gunning but from my experience the gunners rarely do anything. useful. Maybe damage a wing. Death by gunners is pretty damn rare.

For all my bomber flying i have only 6 kills with gunners. 1 with a IL-2 in 3 with the Dornier (the front 20 mm gunner got lucky) and 2 in the B-17.

So yeah... gunners... not that good actually. I had them miss planes that almost touched my tail with their props... and those are 30 skill + expert.
They might get better at 50 skill but i somehow doubt it.

[Naryar]

I regularly get gunner kills in my B25 or Havoc.

and occasionally in my stuka :O

[Aseaheru]

I get gunner kills in things like the PE-3...

[Flying Dice]

That's why you do your own gunning. Low-tier is especially good; the Beaufort is a hidden-OP pubstomper thanks to the great radius on its tailgunner.

[TheBronzePickle]

Gunners are, literally, very hit-or-miss. One of the most important things to remember if you're going AI gunners is accuracy first, then precision. A spray of fire in the right direction is a lot more effective than a line of fire in the wrong direction. Also, take control of the gunners whenever you can. You can usually put more accurate fire on target than the AI can, and you can shoot in longer bursts.

Even in the big target that is the B-17, I'd usually manage to at least severely damage a plane that attacked me. A dead engine or a crippled wing means at the very least, someone has to limp back to base or end up an easy target.

[10ebbor10]

Huge difference between Arcade and Realistic gunners though. Sonlirain does arcade, if I interpret correctly.

[Sonlirain]

Yeah mostly arcade. I don't like waiting 3 minutes for a game.

[Naryar]

Yeah mostly arcade. I don't like waiting 3 minutes for a game.

Also waiting 5 additional minutes to climb at the start of a game...

though i would play RB and probably RB only if RB was less "spend 90% of your time flying in a straight line".

[Sonlirain]

IKR? I wish there was a semirealistic with arcade maps but realistic physics. And maybe no magic circle.

Arcade maps would probably need unlimited ammo tho because they are just way too small to rearm with even a sliver of safety.

[Zrk2]

That's why you do your own gunning. Low-tier is especially good; the Beaufort is a hidden-OP pubstomper thanks to the great radius on its tailgunner.

I love flying it. I have an amazing KDR in it.

IKR? I wish there was a semirealistic with arcade maps but realistic physics. And maybe no magic circle.

Arcade maps would probably need unlimited ammo tho because they are just way too small to rearm with even a sliver of safety.

Definitely no magic circle. No unlimited ammo either.

[Naryar]

Also SB is hilarious in arcade. Tough, turns extremely well, and you can just dogfight with people, sit on their asses and let the 2 shkas do their job.

They're not very accurate but it gets better with expert crew. And some points involved in gunners.

[Sonlirain]

IKR? I wish there was a semirealistic with arcade maps but realistic physics. And maybe no magic circle.

Arcade maps would probably need unlimited ammo tho because they are just way too small to rearm with even a sliver of safety.

Definitely no magic circle. No unlimited ammo either.

Limited wouldn't work on arcade maps. If you want people to transition from arcade to realistic/sim the shock should be smaller.
It should be either unlimiterd ammo and no magic circle so players learn the realistic flight model and leading without help while still having a lot of ammo to throw about or have the magic circle and limited ammo so they learn how to conserve it.

[TheBronzePickle]

Honestly, the best way to improve Realistic would probably be just air-start and nothing else changes. Puts everyone on a more even playing field and the action gets started faster, plus bombers actually get something vaguely comparable to an escort. Keep the airfields far off so that it's still... somewhat safe to land, as long as you're not tailed or the last plane.