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[IcyTea31]

THAT CAR MURDERED ME!

It ended the storied life of El Tequilo, Bartender Luchadore.

Its an evil car.

Now, now, don't chevy them out. It's just a game.

[Ozarck]

http://prevess.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=227

Glloyd hurry up and get on steam so we can discuss this

Welp, my last known password for that forum is dead.

Also, that change looks like an opportunity or even more powergaming and strict control by sec / captain / HoP who likes to be sec / Blueshield who think he IS sec. Even the mere at that the planners are discussing how much it won't be  is evidence that the situation is very open to that progression. Bluh. and here I thought I might observe a few rounds this weekend and see if I could generate enough enthusiasm to play some minor role again.

[miauw62]

Eh, I feel like spacemans wouldn't be the same without the wacky insane """""good guys""""" megacorp we all know and love, but then again, I only ever play on tg anymore.

[bluwolfie]

I agree, I don't think I'd enjoy this as much without Nanotrasen. Their insanity and lack of giving a fuck about the people on the station has actually inspired character backstories for me.

[Aedel]

Then vote against it like I probably will once the playerpoll goes up. This is just to get something to show to Glloyd and the players for when voting starts.

[Glloyd]

http://prevess.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=227

Glloyd hurry up and get on steam so we can discuss this

I'm away at my cottage for the weekend, but I can say right now I hate the idea. It's not SS13 without NT. I've opposed every single name change Bay has done except Phoron and I'll oppose this one.

[Aedel]

http://prevess.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=227

Glloyd hurry up and get on steam so we can discuss this

I'm away at my cottage for the weekend, but I can say right now I hate the idea. It's not SS13 without NT. I've opposed every single name change Bay has done except Phoron and I'll oppose this one.

Here we go!

[werty892]

http://prevess.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=227

Glloyd hurry up and get on steam so we can discuss this

I'm away at my cottage for the weekend, but I can say right now I hate the idea. It's not SS13 without NT. I've opposed every single name change Bay has done except Phoron and I'll oppose this one.

Here we go!

To be fair... I'm not exactly sure what the point of the change is. So everything gets a rename and a recolor based on what you proposed. Nothing actually changes, just makes everything green instead of blue now! If we're going to get away from NT, why not go full independent! The station is now independent. You can chose your citizenship and faction in the character creation screen, and now that matters. If you're say... Terran aligned, you might get a objective to increase Terran influence over the station. Not a traitor style objective, but basically if anyone else is Terran, you might work together to get into positions of power/put terran ideals into place. If you're with the Outer Rim Miners Alliance, same deal. Basically, you want to influence the station towards your faction. And this is not a specific round type, this is happening all the time, while wizards or traitors, or whatever are attacking. You can also be part of the station faction, and work to keep everything in balance, and not have one faction take control.

Obviously this would require a write up of every faction and their priorites, but I would be willing to do that for our wiki if this is what we went with. Every faction would have a backround, and 3 things say they prioritize the most. For Terrans it can be Law, Harmony, and I dunno, Productivity. So someone Terran aligned would work towards making everyone work together under Terran law.

This also lets conflict come up more often. Say the station aligned CMO dies, and can't be cloned. The rest of medical have to decided who to promote to be the new CMO. Now, medical are split about even between the New Green Cross, Vey Med, and Zeng-Hu Pharmecuticals. Each of those groups want their guy to be in charge. Now the captain(Who should always start station aligned) has to basically juggle all the priorities of the individual factions to avoid pissing people off, and make a decision for CMO. Piss some people off too much, for example let's say he chooses someone from Vey Med to be CMO. The Vey Med faction has profit as a priority. So he starts charging for medical service. Now this pisses off the people from the New Green Cross, since they just want to treat people, and they might strike. Now the captain and HoS have to decide what to do about the strikers. They could compromise, at the cost of pissing off the CMO, send in sec to bust up the strikes... etc. The possibilities are endless and complex. Let's do this instead of a reskin.

[Aedel]

I'm just working with Skye on any lore changes. I'm not getting into how anything else would change, i'm against the entire thing.

[scrdest]

*snip*

Funny, your criticism is almost exactly the same as mine.

[Graknorke]

Looks like a straight NanoTrasen > Terran name change, which has to be accompanied by a whole bunch of spriting work.

[Ozarck]

You can chose your citizenship and faction in the character creation screen, and now that matters. If you're say... Terran aligned, you might get a objective to increase Terran influence over the station. Not a traitor style objective, but basically if anyone else is Terran, you might work together to get into positions of power/put terran ideals into place. If you're with the Outer Rim Miners Alliance, same deal. Basically, you want to influence the station towards your faction. And this is not a specific round type, this is happening all the time, while wizards or traitors, or whatever are attacking. You can also be part of the station faction, and work to keep everything in balance, and not have one faction take control.

Spoiler: lots of interesting points in here (click to show/hide)

Obviously this would require a write up of every faction and their priorites, but I would be willing to do that for our wiki if this is what we went with. Every faction would have a backround, and 3 things say they prioritize the most. For Terrans it can be Law, Harmony, and I dunno, Productivity. So someone Terran aligned would work towards making everyone work together under Terran law.

This also lets conflict come up more often. Say the station aligned CMO dies, and can't be cloned. The rest of medical have to decided who to promote to be the new CMO. Now, medical are split about even between the New Green Cross, Vey Med, and Zeng-Hu Pharmecuticals. Each of those groups want their guy to be in charge. Now the captain(Who should always start station aligned) has to basically juggle all the priorities of the individual factions to avoid pissing people off, and make a decision for CMO. Piss some people off too much, for example let's say he chooses someone from Vey Med to be CMO. The Vey Med faction has profit as a priority. So he starts charging for medical service. Now this pisses off the people from the New Green Cross, since they just want to treat people, and they might strike. Now the captain and HoS have to decide what to do about the strikers. They could compromise, at the cost of pissing off the CMO, send in sec to bust up the strikes... etc. The possibilities are endless and complex. Let's do this instead of a reskin.

This has some merit for role play. I think this could be done while retaining Nanotrasen as overlord. Maybe NT had opened up interactions with other factions, phoron having become more widespread, and the station's secrecy becoming irrelevant in light of shifting corporate needs toward cooperation and interchange. That might limit Security's power, if they must avoid angering NT's larger trade partners and the like. Of course, with the lightness of Urist's medium rp nature, it might be a circumstance that goes relatively ignored overall.

[SkyeAuroline]

Now that my account is finally actually registered and working...

If we're going to get away from NT, why not go full independent! The station is now independent. You can chose your citizenship and faction in the character creation screen, and now that matters. If you're say... Terran aligned, you might get a objective to increase Terran influence over the station. Not a traitor style objective, but basically if anyone else is Terran, you might work together to get into positions of power/put terran ideals into place. If you're with the Outer Rim Miners Alliance, same deal. Basically, you want to influence the station towards your faction. And this is not a specific round type, this is happening all the time, while wizards or traitors, or whatever are attacking. You can also be part of the station faction, and work to keep everything in balance, and not have one faction take control.

Obviously this would require a write up of every faction and their priorites, but I would be willing to do that for our wiki if this is what we went with. Every faction would have a backround, and 3 things say they prioritize the most. For Terrans it can be Law, Harmony, and I dunno, Productivity. So someone Terran aligned would work towards making everyone work together under Terran law.

This also lets conflict come up more often. Say the station aligned CMO dies, and can't be cloned. The rest of medical have to decided who to promote to be the new CMO. Now, medical are split about even between the New Green Cross, Vey Med, and Zeng-Hu Pharmecuticals. Each of those groups want their guy to be in charge. Now the captain(Who should always start station aligned) has to basically juggle all the priorities of the individual factions to avoid pissing people off, and make a decision for CMO. Piss some people off too much, for example let's say he chooses someone from Vey Med to be CMO. The Vey Med faction has profit as a priority. So he starts charging for medical service. Now this pisses off the people from the New Green Cross, since they just want to treat people, and they might strike. Now the captain and HoS have to decide what to do about the strikers. They could compromise, at the cost of pissing off the CMO, send in sec to bust up the strikes... etc. The possibilities are endless and complex. Let's do this instead of a reskin.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for here. And I'm kind of disappointed that the whole idea was immediately dismissed on the basis of "it's not NT so it's not SS13". Would SS13 have been any different if we were working for the Terrans from the start? For Vey Med? For a completely different corporation? We don't even work for Nanotrasen in SCOM and you went to great lengths to get the mode to something approaching working, so obviously that's not the problem with the idea. Would there be an objection to an independent station if we'd been independent from the start? If not, then why should there be one now? Why not judge the idea on its own merits instead of by basis of "this is how it's always been done so this is how it should always be"?

Really, we have more important priorities, though. We don't need new modes or maps, we don't really need the "new modes" we already have, we don't need massive sweeping rewrites of non-gameplay things as we phase new maps in. We need to make science useful or remove it, and we need to make engineering more than "set up the supermatter at the start, then enter cryo" as it is now. I don't care that much if we get an independent station. It doesn't affect my play experience. But there's no department actually worth playing currently. Science and engineering are least dependent on other people, and they have so many flaws in the gameplay involved (engineering has nothing to do, science is a straight "Gather the same items and research them every round to unlock everything useful with nothing varying and no possibility for experimentation") that they're unpleasant at best. Medical, Cargo, and Security are dependent on other people... which we don't have. Those are the actual changes I want to see. Independent station with a lot more politics and fun? Great, I like the idea, let's not dismiss it right off the bat without even considering that it has a CHANCE to make a benefit. But please don't rush in to doing it just so we can say "HEY WE HAVE NEW DIFFERENT LORE COME PLAY HERE INSTEAD". There's way more pressing issues. But I can tell you that pretty much everyone who was talking about it and brainstorming ideas was super hyped to actually do it. As it is, with none of the glaring issues changed and more unnecessary things being added, I can't find a reason to stay interested in spess. A lore change might do it, a gameplay change would DEFINITELY do it, but we need to have priorities that are somewhere approaching "in order".

Also, Corai, you asked me about this before I ever brought it up to anyone on-staff, so I'm not certain why you're saying you're against it now. :c

[Ozarck]

"from the start"

I'm kind of disappointed that the whole idea was immediately dismissed on the basis of "it's not NT so it's not SS13". Would SS13 have been any different if we were working for the Terrans from the start? For Vey Med? For a completely different corporation? We don't even work for Nanotrasen in SCOM and you went to great lengths to get the mode to something approaching working, so obviously that's not the problem with the idea. Would there be an objection to an independent station if we'd been independent from the start? If not, then why should there be one now? Why not judge the idea on its own merits instead of by basis of "this is how it's always been done so this is how it should always be"?

A mode is one thing. The setting of the whole game system is another. Of course it would have been different i it had been a different setting from the start.

Nanotrasen is a known entity that people play with, play against, and are familiar with. Doing away with it seems needless, complicated, and "out of character." I mean, as a mode that grows in popularity and sophistication until it replaces the original in the players' minds and hearts, I could understand the transition, but, I literally learned of this today from Aedel's post, which seems like a sudden announcement out of the blue. people don't like sudden announcements out of the blue like: "hey guys? that thing you've been doing and enjoying for years? Yeah, we're done with that now. Get over it, man up, and move on."

Why would you be surprised at all that there is at least initial strong pushback? Is it because you have been playing with the idea for some time and are excited,

But I can tell you that pretty much everyone who was talking about it and brainstorming ideas was super hyped to actually do it.

so why shouldn't everyone else be (even though they have no idea this is coming)? Why not take some time and sell the idea instead of complaining that people don't like your new toy as much as they like their old one. I mean, and if this was done in this thread I missed it: why not invite the players into the discussion before having dumped a load of effort into it because a small group of people "in the know" have decided they want to run with it?

Since I've been playing we've switched maps, twice I think, switched from tgcode to baycode, witched to objectiveless antags, and switched to supermatter from Singulo and switched out most of the playerbase. It's a dramatically different game now than it was when I started, so if this goes through, it won't break my heart, but my initial reaction is still: why bother? it seems pointless, unnecessary, and likely to add unexpected complications. and your response hasn't affected that at all.

If this sounds harsh, I apologize. I mean no personal disrespect to you or anyone involved with this idea.

[miauw62]

If you think we're complaining about the name, you've missed the point by miles.

That said, bay seems determined to suck all the fun out of SS13 lore and turn it into Super Srs Generic Science Fiction Setting #138796.

Or maybe I'm too attached to the wacky memes of tg. Probably not

E: what I'm trying to get at is that there is a big difference between "generic gubment" and "massive evil megacorp"