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[Nerjin]

Too much mafia games for me at once. I'm sorry Request Replacement

I shouldn't have joined two at once.

[The Soldier]

God damn I feel bad about doing this, especially with 2 people already dropping out. It's hard enough to get out of bed, let alone make a good post. Unvote, Request Replacement. I'll be back on the boards when I recover...

[Spaghetti7]

Err. Now I don't frequent these boards, but I have a feeling that finding three replacements could take a while. Am I right?

[Shakerag]

[Frequent BM replacements are the rule rather than the exception.  Three at once, however, is a bit on the odd side.]

[Also, everyone, keep red color text to voting.]

[Flying Dice]

I'll drop myself in as a replacement, though I've got two papers to write and a clan ops tonight so I might not post much today.

[Teneb]

I'll drop myself in as a replacement, though I've got two papers to write and a clan ops tonight so I might not post much today.

You'll be replacing remuthra. I'll send you the role.


Flying Dice has replaced remuthra

[Flying Dice]

Spaghetti:

Alright, let me try to explain that again. In the early game and the scumhunting that ensures, I would find someone giving off tells. I would push them and milk every last bit of evidence I could, showing them as weak. If someone then votes on me and a couple of people suspiciously join in, being all aggressive but obviously having no real reasons to join, I would try to ward off the attack by revealing someone else who was incredibly scummy. I realise this doesn't answer the original question (which I misread at the time) but I attempted to answer the actual question above. When saying background, I mean background by Mafia standards, not lurking.

Mmm? This seems odd also. You're saying you'd:

-Find a scummy target
-Harvest as many tells as you can
-Make them look weak

Yes. Tells = scum. Scum = weak.

Oh no, that's not what you said. You're not talking about scumhunting, you're talking about cultivating an easy target to divert suspicion from yourself. In other words the concern isn't with finding and revealing someone giving off tells, it's in keeping attention away from you and convincing town to lynch anyone other than yourself. Scum, scum, scum.

Spaghetti

Spaghetti, is there ever a right time to tunnel another player? Is this an acceptable scumhunting technique?

No. Concentrating on a single person in never going to be a good thing. If you have your raisins then it's fine, and hopefully you could get them lynched for it. However, there's no sense in staying on one person and leaving everyone else to deal with the other, not least because it looks lazy and real scummy. You may have noticed I've generally avoided people being very scummy and probed others, because I want to get to know what EVERYONE is like.

I only ask because you seemed to think Nerjin's technique of asking everyone questions was a poor one. Do you still think that? Is your vote on Ford at the moment just a pressure vote on someone you don't think is actually very scummy?

I guess I just wasn't accustomed to it. Now it does seem like a good idea, although I'm not sure I could think up that many questions and I find it far more simple to ask one at a time.
Also, yes, thanks for reminding me. Unvote Captain Ford and Vote Borno.
That was only a pressure vote, now I'll put my vote on the actual scummy looking one around here.

Not acceptable. Saying "Oh, he looks like scum" isn't an acceptable reason for a vote, especially when they're already being voted by several people. Why are you voting for him?

Spaghetti

EBWOP:

(Side note: the person you missed was borno.)

This game has like nine players, right? I'm pretty sure I missed more than one.

Oh wait, I'm one of them. So I only missed two people then. I think the other one was NQT.

*checks* Yeah, it was NQT. With only two posts, it's no surprise I don't have a read on him yet.

And I guess borno just failed to make an impression.

Captain: Why did borno fly under your radar until you took the time to investigate him specifically?

@Borno- What is more important as a doctor, finding scum or lasting as long as possible?

That's a tough one, but I think that lasting as long as possible would be the best idea, since then you have more chance to help people live...
Actually, this sounds suspiciously like a role fish, Remuthra. Trying to flush the doctor out so you can kill him at night?

Do tell how this is rolefishing, borno.
[/quote]
I see this as role fishing because I was more focussed on scum-hunting than staying alive, and the question was what would you do as doctor. If I had answered scum-hunting, then the scum would probably know if I were a doctor.
[/quote]
Care to explain your reasoning here, borno? That makes no sense, as far as I can tell.

A question for you: do you consider superBlast's mistakes worse than Remuthra's earlier evasiveness?

The evasiveness of Remuthra is definitely scummy, but I'm finding superBlast quite scummy also with all his mistakes, and I'm chasing him because having only one person to pursue is not really good if it can be helped in this game, because in D2 we have another person to chase after right in front of us.

Lining up an easy D2 target already, eh? What do you think of prepping a D2 lynch before you've even seen the results of your D1 bandwagon?

I'm not sure what you're referencing to here. None of the votes I have made have made anyone jump onto any type of wagon, band or not. And yeah, while it's probably too early for lining up a D2 lynch, most people are thinking that Remuthra's scum, so I think it would be best to pursue someone else on the side while also pursuing Remuthra (Albeit not as much). And hey, if superBlast is scum, we end up having a lynch target, that is not necessarily for D2 through.

I'm too busy to actually go back and check, but you and several other people were voting Remuthra, weren't you? That's a bandwagon of sorts.

That was a fairly early D1 sampling of votes, why did you label it as bandwagoning?

Shakerag: All of your recent posts have been concerned with encouraging other people to participate and voice their thoughts, rather than pressuring anyone directly. Why?

Extend.

[Captain Ford]

Captain: Why did borno fly under your radar until you took the time to investigate him specifically?

I'm a replacement. I was reading the game in my spare time before I was replaced, and in that time I wasn't paying very close attention, nor did I get very far into the thread. borno didn't post until quite a while after the game started, and has posted about 1/3 as often as the other newbies, so I really hadn't seen anything from him at the time I made my first post.

Extend. I wonder what happens if we lose enough players that we don't have enough to pass an extension?

Deathsword: Can I request that you use the unambiguous yyyy-mm-dd format for dates, rather than american or british style dates? At first look, I thought the extension pushed the deadline forward to monday -- then realized the third of march is sunday, and then realized it wasn't the third of march at all, but the third of january. Then I realized you were british -- wait, aren't you in brazil?

[Teneb]

Deathsword: Can I request that you use the unambiguous yyyy-mm-dd format for dates, rather than american or british style dates? At first look, I thought the extension pushed the deadline forward to monday -- then realized the third of march is sunday, and then realized it wasn't the third of march at all, but the third of january. Then I realized you were british -- wait, aren't you in brazil?

I'll post the deadline tomorrow (haven't done an official count yet, but I think there are enough extension votes). Dates are always DD/MM/YYYY. I'll start placing this in every deadline post.

[Flying Dice]

I'd like to second the request for yyyy/mm/dd date format.

[Urist Imiknorris]

There are indeed three votes to extend.

[Shakerag]

[Or, you know, we could just go with long-ish form of "Friday, March 1st".]

Extend, just in case.  I thought I only counted two.


Captain Ford:  What's your case on borno again?  Are you thinking he's scum, or trying to ask him to the prom?  Because all I'm seeing you do lately in regards to him is act like you want to hold his hand and stare into his eyes.


Nerjin:  [You suck.  Well, come back anytime, although I'm not really sure you need another BM, IMO.]

The Soldier:  [You suck too.  Do come back, because I'm very interested in seeing you run through a full game or two.]

Spaghetti:

Alright, let me try to explain that again. In the early game and the scumhunting that ensures, I would find someone giving off tells. I would push them and milk every last bit of evidence I could, showing them as weak. If someone then votes on me and a couple of people suspiciously join in, being all aggressive but obviously having no real reasons to join, I would try to ward off the attack by revealing someone else who was incredibly scummy. I realise this doesn't answer the original question (which I misread at the time) but I attempted to answer the actual question above. When saying background, I mean background by Mafia standards, not lurking.

Mmm? This seems odd also. You're saying you'd:

-Find a scummy target
-Harvest as many tells as you can
-Make them look weak

Yes. Tells = scum. Scum = weak.

Oh no, that's not what you said. You're not talking about scumhunting, you're talking about cultivating an easy target to divert suspicion from yourself. In other words the concern isn't with finding and revealing someone giving off tells, it's in keeping attention away from you and convincing town to lynch anyone other than yourself. Scum, scum, scum.

I *think* what Spaghetti7 is trying to get at is that in order to ward off attack (by potential scum?) he would aggressively scumhunt (because scumhunting is what all good townies should do)?  I think? 

[This whole dialogue feels like it's giving off miscommunication vibes to me.]

Shakerag: All of your recent posts have been concerned with encouraging other people to participate and voice their thoughts, rather than pressuring anyone directly. Why?

It might have something to do with me being an IC.  My personal philosphy is that while ICs are indeed players in the game as well, our main focus is on teaching you newblings.  Obviously, I and the other IC could come in the game guns a-blazing, but I don't think that's a terribly effective way to teach how to play.  I think it's better to learn by doing, so a lot of my questions and prompts to the other players are intended to get them to do things that I think will help them learn about the game.  Also, by getting them involved and playing, that helps me form reads on them at the same time. 

So, yeah, I'm a bit more "hands off" when I IC as opposed to playing in a non-BM game. 

Since you haven't done so already, do give me your reads on all of the players in the game so far, Flying Dice.

[Spaghetti7]

OK, what the hell. This is a fucking bandwagon right here, for all you newbs who don't know what the definition of the word is. I'm willing to accept this as a lazy towny trying for an easy lynch, because there are only two scum. But really, REASONS, ASSHOLE.

Alrighty. In case you didn't know, bandwagoning can be a tactic. When people are put under pressure of a very possible lynch, they can say things that they really shouldn't say. This is the sort of stuff I was looking for here. borno, you did seem to get pretty worked up by it (I understand you're moving house ) and have done some backtracking since. If you want some reasons, I would talk about the wealth of RVS questions you were asking, some really quite contrived, and say that you were trying to make it appear you were active and scum hunting while switching targets too quickly to ever actually find anything out. As of right now, I'm still not sure whether you are just having newbie problems or scum problems, however.

Not acceptable. Saying "Oh, he looks like scum" isn't an acceptable reason for a vote, especially when they're already being voted by several people. Why are you voting for him?

Spaghetti

Spaghetti7: Why is it you find borno to be the scummiest one around here?

(@Borno: Technically, he has a reason for voting you -- you're the "actual scummy looking one around here". But he needs to explain why that is)

Effectively the above. Even before extensions were decided, when it was getting close to the end of the day, borno kept asking RVS questions. In 2 posts he managed to ask 3 questions, 2 of which involved rather convoluted scenarios. I think that it appears pretty scummy if you are content to still be asking those sorts of questions so close to somebody getting lynched without making any serious judgments.

[This whole dialogue feels like it's giving off miscommunication vibes to me.]

Me too. That question has just become a rather large, pointless discussion of nothing. Do you agree, IronyOwl?

[Teneb]

Extension passed, the new deadline is 22:00 BRT of the fifth of march of 2013.


Votecount later

[Captain Ford]

Captain Ford:  What's your case on borno again?  Are you thinking he's scum, or trying to ask him to the prom?  Because all I'm seeing you do lately in regards to him is act like you want to hold his hand and stare into his eyes.

Mostly general strangeness: The stuff he's chosen to investigate, the way he's investigated it and some of the ways he's worded things are odd. My original suspicions were unfounded, but I did notice some incongruities I want to probe him about. He's answered some of them but not all of them.

Hmm...maybe I have been a little too overtly nice to him. I was aiming for gunboat diplomacy, and I believe it works from his perspective.

When he posted his tirade, I immediately recognized the mistake he'd made, and I knew how he was going to react when I pointed it out. If I'd played that to it's full potential, he'd have been a lot more embarrassed about it, and quite possibly may never have come back to play again (if somebody did that to me, I would have left and never looked back). I know I've embarrassed myself numerous times on this subforum, but nobody's ever condemned me for it. If people hadn't been so patient and forgiving with me, I wouldn't still be here. I'm just doing the same for him.

In any case, I believe I was pretty clear with him that I haven't taken the pressure off, only reduced it to the level I'd originally intended.