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[Morrigi]

Simple solutions never work. There are way to many problems in this idea. Besides I doubt they will bring tanks and artillery with them like those new "citizens" of "DNR" and "LNR"

They "found" those tanks fair and square!

[martinuzz]

^^The argument that has been made about all immigrants ever.

It's just like can't you see the frickin' pattern here?  That shit doesn't look alien to you because your fucking grandparents assimilated them already.  You grew up thinking that those weird and foreign customs were normal.  Your grandkids will be confused why you thought that the Syrians were weird.

Generalisation like that is not really explaining why then the grand- and great-grandchildren of the Moroccan and Turkish immigrants in the Netherlands still have not integrated (and quite a few of them, when interviewed, will even tell you that their religion does not allow them to integrate with a system that is not based on Islam).

Granted, there is something to say for the argument that our grandparents did not do anything to help their grandparents integrate, but still.

[Helgoland]

I've met a fair few grand- and great-grandchildren of Turkish immigrants in Germany who have integrated completely. If you're gonna make generalizations like that, at least back them up with some serious statistics instead of just gut feeling.

[Sheb]

Yeah, same here in Belgium I must say.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Problem is not integration of two ethnic groups in one stable society. It is indeed a matter of time.

Problem is how this integration will happen.You can get civil wars and\or ethnic cleansings in the process. (Lets be honest, Holocaust wasn't a sudden event. It took decades(if not centuries) of wrong policies to get to this point

[martinuzz]

I've met a fair few grand- and great-grandchildren of Turkish immigrants in Germany who have integrated completely. If you're gonna make generalizations like that, at least back them up with some serious statistics instead of just gut feeling.

I am sorry, I should have said "a lot of the grandchildren of" instead of completely generalizing like I did, because there are indeed those who managed to integrate very well.

Sadly it's not just gut feeling, for me it comes from personal experience in working / talking / debating with Moroccan and Turkish youth for over 20 years now.

[Antsan]

Wasn't there an article linked here about how some person living in a "conservative" area in America didn't have contact with conservatives in all his life or something like that? I think "personal experience" counts as gut feeling.

[Loud Whispers]

People see the difference. People fail to believe that it can't be solved with some effort.

Optimistic but visibly untrue, two before you already demonstrate this - moreover people fail to see the value in problems that beget problems taken on for ideological, not practical reasons.

[Loud Whispers]

Wasn't there an article linked here about how some person living in a "conservative" area in America didn't have contact with conservatives in all his life or something like that? I think "personal experience" counts as gut feeling.

This guy I believe. As for failure to integrate it's abundantly clear when Africans with London accents behead Britons
There's even a bit of East London called Gaza Strip

[notquitethere]

This guy I believe. As for failure to integrate it's abundantly clear when Africans with London accents behead Britons

Vast majority of people (immigrants included) don't behead folk. Next you'll be saying gingers aren't integrated.

[Nick K]

As for failure to integrate it's abundantly clear when Africans with London accents behead Britons
There's even a bit of East London called Gaza Strip

A good point that shows that we shouldn't have a problem with Islamic immigration - I assume you're talking about the murder of Lee Rigby in 2013, which was committed by two men who were raised as Christians and converted to radical Islam when they were adults. Or are you saying that we shouldn't allow black people into the country?

I'm not convinced that terrorism from muslims is all that common in the UK, despite us having a lot of people from Muslim countries, especially Pakistan. Terrorism is one of the things that usually makes the front pages and racist groups make a huge fuss over high-profile crimes committed by certain minorities. That's why you see lots of noise online about the Rochdale case but much less about other news stories involving white paedophiles such as this recent one.
The latest terrorist news from the UK is that a ginger-haired guy who felt discriminated against for his hair colour was arrested for planning to assassinate Prince Charles so that the ginger-haired Prince Harry would become king (AFAIK Harry is 4th in line, but I guess it isn't surprising that a crazy's plans don't make sense).

You can find examples of horrific crimes committed by pretty much any sizable group of people, and crime tends to be higher among poor people so it's easy to smear disadvantaged minorities, who tend to be poorer, as being violent or criminal.
My personal experience is that I've met dozens of people of African or Asian descent who were born in the UK, have mixed groups of friends, respect other religions, and are thoroughly British and utterly non-violent. That includes muslims, including some very devout ones.
In fact, I've only met one muslim who was prejudiced, and he was quite well integrated - a non-violent, clearly British man who wasn't even very religious, just anti-semitic. I've had far more experience of racism and violence from white, British people who didn't seem to be muslims.

Just because two people converted as adults to a rare extremist form of Islam and committed a murder two years ago only shows that there's a tiny proportion of psychotic nutjobs out there. There are violent extremists of all kinds, including plenty of right-wing, white, anti-islamic ones.

But, I could be wrong. Maybe Islam does make people violent, but I'm not going to casually take people's word for it without serious evidence. Are there statistics from a reputable neutral source such as university researchers, using recent UK data, correcting for social factors like poverty, that shows that muslims are more likely to be violent or criminal? If so, then do provide a link as I'd be interested to read that.

[smjjames]

Wasn't there an article linked here about how some person living in a "conservative" area in America didn't have contact with conservatives in all his life or something like that? I think "personal experience" counts as gut feeling.

This guy I believe. As for failure to integrate it's abundantly clear when Africans with London accents behead Britons
There's even a bit of East London called Gaza Strip

Just because there's a bit of London called 'Little Gaza Strip', it doesn't mean anything. We have our immigrant communities here in the US too, like Chinatown in San Fransisco, or even various Little Italys. Heck, theres even one in my hometown of San Diego.

[mainiac]

(and quite a few of them, when interviewed, will even tell you that their religion does not allow them to integrate with a system that is not based on Islam).

What if you applied the same standards to white christians that you apply to the Turks?  Quite a few white christians have choice things to say about mainstream culture.  Do you consider them a different culture or a subculture?

[martinuzz]

From a national perspective, I would have to regard them as a subculture, since, as our prime ministers keep telling us, our society is rooted in christian/humanist/jewish tradition.

From a personal perspective (as an agnostic empiricist), I regard christians, regardless of skin colour (or any other group adhering a dogmatic institution that relies on 'faith' rather than 'proof') to be of another (and very alien) culture, most specifically those who wish not to integrate into modern society, but rather seclude themselves in closed communities.

[mainiac]

So Germany should kick you out, since you aren't a member of the German culture.  Or was it dutch?  Damn it, all you people look the same.