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[ChairmanPoo]

20% of the vote in: 60% Oxi, 40% yes.

[Sergarr]

20% of the vote in: 60% Oxi, 40% yes.

"REMOVE EU remove eu" incoming?

[ChairmanPoo]

They won't be kicked out of the EU.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/05/eurozone-greece-bundesbank-handelsblatt-idUSL8N0ZL0FE20150705

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Reuters) - Bundesbank chief Jens Weidmann has warned Angela Merkel's cabinet that a Greek exit from the euro zone would rip billions of euros out of the German budget, German business daily Handelsblatt reported on Sunday, citing government sources.

The paper said that Weidmann had warned that the costs of a Grexit would hit Bundesbank profits, which flow into the budget.

It added that Bundesbank losses would be greater than the 14.4 billion euros ($16 billion) already put aside in provisions linked to the euro zone debt crisis because it would make losses on Greek securities bought by the central bank.

"This would not be enough in the case of a Grexit," Handelsblatt reported without specifying its source.

A Bundesbank spokesman declined to comment, as did a spokesman for the German government and for the finance ministry. ($1 = 0.8999 euros)

I'm following the results here at the Greek's ministry of domestic affairs website: http://ekloges.ypes.gr/current/e/public/index.html?lang=en#{%22cls%22:%22main%22,%22params%22:{}}

So far as the scrutiny has gone up, so has the Oxi percentage.

[smjjames]

20% of the vote in: 60% Oxi, 40% yes.

"REMOVE EU remove eu" incoming?

As I understand it (from way over here in California), the referendum is on whether to accept a bailout from the EU or not.

Also, the split between No and Oxi (which is Yes in Greek?) is slowly widening.

[MonkeyHead]

Not accepting a bailout and the conditions one would impose is more or less a de facto resignation from one or more aspect of EU membership, considering circumstances, AFAIK. Maybe someone more versed in the subtle nuances of economics could correct me, though.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Left government leads Greece to catastrophe? It is unexpected

PS. I don't think that EU handled it well but electing left populists when your country in trouble is a suicide.

[smjjames]

Left government leads Greece to catastrophe? It is unexpected

PS. I don't think that EU handled it well but electing left populists when your country in trouble is a suicide.

Uhuh, and having right wing (whatever category) when your country is in trouble doesn't neccesarily mean that they'll handle it correctly. See the Great Depression and Bush Jrs second term.

[alway]

David Cameron wants to get rid of encryption. Is the internet just something that this man completely doesn't understand? It's either that or he's wilfully trying to push measures that obviously nobody's going to be happy with.
Oh and on that note, how much do you want to bet than an exception is made for the intelligence agencies, defence contractors, and maybe some journalist buddies?

Forget any of that, it's downright damned insane and counter to mathematics itself. There is no difference between 'encrypted data' and any other sort of data. Given an encryption scheme and a properly large encryption key, a completely blank, zeroed out hard drive could be considered an encrypted form of any data that could possibly fit on that hard drive (as could any other combination of data stored on the hard drive). It would be absurd to think of it as such, obviously, but that is essentially the idea behind Deniable Encryption techniques. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption
Assuming encryption of that sort is well implemented, it is impossible to detect, and thus you must either accept that encryption can not be banned or sets the very dangerous precedent that a mere accusation of encryption demands prison time. Encryption isn't some little offshoot or side-branch of computer science -- it's at the very core of information theory and can not be excised from computers any more than you could make a computer that produces no heat and consumes no power. Saying he wants no encryption is like saying he wants people to only use computers that consume no power.

[ChairmanPoo]

Not accepting a bailout and the conditions one would impose is more or less a de facto resignation from one or more aspect of EU membership, considering circumstances, AFAIK. Maybe someone more versed in the subtle nuances of economics could correct me, though.

Nope. There is no provision whatsoever for kicking countries out of the Eurozone. Plus even the Bundesbank has admitted that it would be more expensive (to themselves!) to kick Greece out than to hand them the rescue package outright.

[Graknorke]

I don't get this idiotic sentiment that the government, defence contractors and intelligence agencies of all things must make all of their information public.

I was trying to get at the idea that if there really is no need for encrypted communication, then the government shouldn't need to be using it either. But of course there is and they'll carry on doing.

[MonkeyHead]

Not accepting a bailout and the conditions one would impose is more or less a de facto resignation from one or more aspect of EU membership, considering circumstances, AFAIK. Maybe someone more versed in the subtle nuances of economics could correct me, though.

Nope. There is no provision whatsoever for kicking countries out of the Eurozone. Plus even the Bundesbank has admitted that it would be more expensive (to themselves!) to kick Greece out than to hand them the rescue package outright.

Interesting. I was expecting something more subtle than just a boot from the Eurozone in any case. What, I do not know, but not really a "banhammer descends" style action in any case. One would think if it was so expensive for the debts to continue to exist it would make sense to write them off in exchange for rather punitive restrictions on future actions. I geuss what we have is a situation which remains unpleasantly poised until the debts reach a point where entities like the Bundesbank come to the decision that it would make financial sense to cut off the gangrenous limb rather than hope it heals.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't get this idiotic sentiment that the government, defence contractors and intelligence agencies of all things must make all of their information public.

I was trying to get at the idea that if there really is no need for encrypted communication, then the government shouldn't need to be using it either. But of course there is and they'll carry on doing.

There's no point trying to use logic and reason, they're running off of Oxbridge Logic

[Sergarr]

Spoiler: Funny propaganda images are funny (Greece referenfum) (click to show/hide)

[Owlbread]

I've heard that at least 50% of the votes have been counted and the Yes side hasn't reached a million votes yet. It looks like a crushing defeat for Germany.

[miljan]

Nice, here comes a slow fall of EU.