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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1777547 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18315 on: July 03, 2015, 05:27:54 pm »

Read this in the news this morning, and still don't understand why it's a problem. If they're not legal marriages then why should I care?
Well for one you've got arranged marriages, wives who have to live with their "husbands" no matter what, polygamous "marriages" where multiple wives are bound to one man, no legal protection for any married persons in marriage and after divorces (because it was never legal to begin with). Sharia courts, the ones where womens' testimonies are worth 1/2 that of men are unsurprisingly not kind to divorced women. It also underlies a far deeper disrespect for British law and customs (in both senses of that word). And when you have people who do not follow the country's law...

Quote
...7/7, the Trojan horse plot, the Rotherham rape gangs, the Bristol rape gangs, the Telford rape gangs, Oxfordshire rape gangs, Derby rape gangs, the female genital mutilation scandals, a soldier beheaded, cadets set on fire, sharia zones, modesty patrols, shariah courts, more Britons joining ISIS than the reserves, those ISIS fighters returning to Britain, girls signing up to be Jihadi brides, clerics running recruiting for ISIS and even charity spokespeople caught out as advocating supporting brothers in Syria on the Jihadist side of the war
It will not be the last law broken.

Vilanat

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18316 on: July 03, 2015, 05:52:56 pm »

A rise in sharia marriages has prompted fears that polygamy is illegally being carried out in the UK.[/url].
Read this in the news this morning, and still don't understand why it's a problem. If they're not legal marriages then why should I care?

I am not sure this is how things go in the UK, but in some countries if the wives carry children, then the ones who are not legally married can receive extra benefits as single mothers.
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Graknorke

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18317 on: July 03, 2015, 06:45:14 pm »

no legal protection for any married persons in marriage and after divorces (because it was never legal to begin with). Sharia courts, the ones where womens' testimonies are worth 1/2 that of men are unsurprisingly not kind to divorced women.
I don't see how the other things you listed were issues specific to the multiple-"marriages", but the quoted two are indeed big deals. Thanks, before now it looked like one of those completely irrelevant things that the news sometimes decides to report on anyway.
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evilcherry

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18318 on: July 04, 2015, 12:11:03 am »

To me it would be better if the EU is a even closer union to start with - It should be basically one state with current states working as municipalities with their own UN vote when Lisbon was signed.

One currency, one macroeconomic policy, coupled with multiple central banks and multiple budgets will never work.

It would be better if Greece is mandated to have German Taxes and German Benefits, to start with.


On a saner take, its now basically brinkmanship on behalf of EU. The refusal to provide money is more because of SYRIZA as a Coalition of the Radical Left, rather than any of its actual policies.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 12:21:37 am by evilcherry »
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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18319 on: July 04, 2015, 11:39:26 am »

It would be better if Greece is mandated to have German Taxes and German Benefits, to start with.
Eh, the Greek economy is very much different from the German one - Germany for example has very little tourism, but lots of heavy industry. And we don't have as many remote islands whose population needs to be supported monetarily.

But yeah, brinkmanship on both sides I guess - it's like watching a Leopard and a Pinto play chicken, as I said before.
Greece has made massive reforms in what money goes where, the concrete thing that can be quantified.
Again, source?
Also efficiency of money employed in a particular field can be quantified as well. Keep that in mind.
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18320 on: July 04, 2015, 12:49:30 pm »

Again, source?

You expect me to provide sources for elementary background information?

Okay...

http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/workingpapers/2014-15/14-15-11.pdf
Quote
The Greek governments could have been highly competent and the objectives would still
have failed.  They have not been that competent, but they still implemented a large
number of measures that were highly unpopular and against stiff opposition.  Examples
of such measures just for the Papandreou government (up to the end or 2011) included:
  Increased the VAT to 23%, from 19% or 13% originally, despite all the calls that
it would reduce competitiveness and possibly reduce VAT receipts.
  Eliminated the two “extra” months of pay (Christmas, Easter, and vacation
bonuses) and replaced them with fractions of the original pay, before eliminating
them altogether.
  Eliminated the raises for seniority in the public sector.
  In addition to the above, it cut a 10% of salaries of public servants (with
reductions that came later totaling more than 30%).
  Similar, in some cases higher, cuts as the above were implemented on pensions.
  Equalized the pension requirements for men and women.
  Reduced the tax-free income to 5,000 from 12,000 euros.
  Reduced medical expenditure tax deductions to 20% (from 40%) even for income
earned in 2010. After 2012, these deductions were effectively eliminated for the
vast majority of tax-payers, as a 10% deduction applies only to expenditures
exceeding 5% of annual income.
  Considerably increased car registration charges from 2010 onwards.
  Implemented a new special “solidarity” tax from ranging from 1% to 6% of
income.
  Increased bus ticket prices by 20% and subway ticket prices by 40%.
  Reduced severance pay that private employers pay by up to 50% (depending on
length of notice that is given).
  Introduced new house property taxes.

Preempitively for the next time you call Greece corrupt: Source?

And I want something with numbers done by an economist or a political scientist, not media hearsay.

Edit: I got to musing about a hypothetical... What if these events had happened without a foreign government to act as a scapegoat?
A countries government senior officials have close personal and professional ties to a number of investment firms.  These investment firms own nearly all the corporate bonds of an emerging market firm.  It is discovered that the emerging market firm made a bad set of investments.  They can't afford to service their debt so bankruptcy is inevitable unless they get bought out and there are no buyers.

Holding tens of billions of euros of useless paper, the investment firms reach out to their contacts in the government.  The government extends credit to the emerging market firm despite that firm not being able to point to a revenue source.  This lets the investment firms avoid writing off tens of billions of euros in bad paper and possibly being made bankrupt themselves.  Instead the investment firms start buying even more of the bad paper at hugely profitable rates.  In a few short years they collect a huge profit buying a useless asset.

Eventually the purchases of this useless asset becomes non-sustainable.  The government buys out the investment firms at the new (reduced) face value of the bad bonds.  The investment firms walk away having made no profit but having benefited from a "float" of several years that let them leverage their useless paper to profitable investments in other assets.  The investment firms lost none of the money they sunk into their bad investment.  The president of the emerging market firm is fired and joins a regulatory agency working with the investment firms who have benefited from the government intervention.  He leaves the firm in worse shape then it's ever been but is personally in the black.

The government has now put taxpayers on the hook for not just the bad paper by the investment firms.  Even more troubling the government has put taxpayers on the hook for tens of billions of euros that went directly to the profits of the investment firms that made these bad decisions.  This money was funneled through the defunct shell of the bankrupt emerging markets firm but that firm merely acted as a middle man for money to go directly from the government to the firms holding the bad paper.  In order to deny complicity in what is essentially graft, the government insists that the bankrupt emerging markets firm is in fact not bankrupt and they were paying good money for good assets.  They pour even more money into the firm to stave off the inevitable bankruptcy to keep up the illusion.

Pouring money into the bankrupt firm lets the corpse shamble along but it's horrendously expensive.  The firm has a number of contracts that could be renegotiated in the event of a bankruptcy to return it to profitability.  Postponing bankruptcy leaves the firm legally obligated to honor these contracts even though they make no sense.  Stuck with the bad contracts, the firm has no chance to return to profitability because they would need a vast profit to outweigh the losses on these obsolete contracts.  Since they are a walking corpse they are about as likely to make new contracts as a leper and can't try to find profitable developments.  The government refuses to put enough money into the bankrupt firm to allow it to make these developments because that would undermine their pretense that the firm is not bankrupt.

Eventually the corporate board of the emerging market company revolts.  They throw out the new president, where he has a golden parachute to a comfy government position.  They get another president who takes the company to a bankruptcy court and demands that the company be put into receivership.  Receivership would be horrible but the company can't make payroll anyway so they consider that worth it.  If such a thing happened the government would lose hundreds of billions of Euros of corporate debt.  The executive branch of the government issues threats against the judicial branch of the government to discourage.

So, what would we think of this hypothetical with no foreigners to scapegoat?  We were dealing with a government that bailed out bad investments, threw good money after bad and did it all among a network of politically connected executives and high ranking government officials who all walked away rich.  The government took tens of billions of euros of private losses and turned them into hundreds of billions of liability for taxpayers.  I for one would conclude that the government was both spectacularly incompetent and corrupt...  Imagine what we would do to the senior government and corporate officials who participated in this corruption.  Good thing they have a scapegoat!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 01:50:15 pm by mainiac »
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MarcAFK

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18321 on: July 05, 2015, 01:04:07 am »

Sounds like the US investment industry, wasn't it supposed to be hypothetical?
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Graknorke

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18322 on: July 05, 2015, 08:15:00 am »

David Cameron wants to get rid of encryption. Is the internet just something that this man completely doesn't understand? It's either that or he's wilfully trying to push measures that obviously nobody's going to be happy with.
Oh and on that note, how much do you want to bet than an exception is made for the intelligence agencies, defence contractors, and maybe some journalist buddies?
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18323 on: July 05, 2015, 08:39:09 am »

Cameron probably does understand what Internet is. He just really wants to re-enact 1984 IRL. "active tolerance" BS is from this series, too...
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18324 on: July 05, 2015, 08:39:36 am »

He's vehemently opposed to closed tubes in which people can hide their secrets. The computer web should be a big open flatbed lorry for transporting public internets without any treachery or obfuscation.



This pic totally fucked my brain, yo:


That placard is very likely to provoke lengthy philosophical debates on the practical and theoretical feasibility of un-fucking, possibly followed by corollary discussions about such hypothetical acts as un-stabbing, un-raping, and un-murdering.

Interesting Times, people.
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18325 on: July 05, 2015, 11:34:09 am »

So it seems that the Greece vote is going to be no.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18326 on: July 05, 2015, 11:48:23 am »

Unfuck is a perfectly valid and valuable verb

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18327 on: July 05, 2015, 11:50:08 am »

So it seems that the Greece vote is going to be no.
Looking very close though - as of right now there's only been one poll AFAIK with around 2% difference between OXI and NAI.
First forecasts will be availible in about an hour.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

evilcherry

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18328 on: July 05, 2015, 11:59:59 am »

David Cameron wants to get rid of encryption. Is the internet just something that this man completely doesn't understand? It's either that or he's wilfully trying to push measures that obviously nobody's going to be happy with.
Oh and on that note, how much do you want to bet than an exception is made for the intelligence agencies, defence contractors, and maybe some journalist buddies?
As long as the government don't hide ANY of their own data. After all its just free market.

It would be better if Greece is mandated to have German Taxes and German Benefits, to start with.
Eh, the Greek economy is very much different from the German one - Germany for example has very little tourism, but lots of heavy industry. And we don't have as many remote islands whose population needs to be supported monetarily.

But yeah, brinkmanship on both sides I guess - it's like watching a Leopard and a Pinto play chicken, as I said before.
Greece has made massive reforms in what money goes where, the concrete thing that can be quantified.
Again, source?
Also efficiency of money employed in a particular field can be quantified as well. Keep that in mind.
Well anyone from Mecklenburg or Baden will see things very differently. Also if Greece has so many small islands that can be seen as more of a liability in the first place, they should be entitled to more development funds to support them. Who don't wish to pay should try to remove those islands (physically, trade with turkey, or remove their population) at their own cost.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 12:11:44 pm by evilcherry »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #18329 on: July 05, 2015, 12:30:35 pm »

David Cameron wants to get rid of encryption. Is the internet just something that this man completely doesn't understand? It's either that or he's wilfully trying to push measures that obviously nobody's going to be happy with.
Oh and on that note, how much do you want to bet than an exception is made for the intelligence agencies, defence contractors, and maybe some journalist buddies?
As long as the government don't hide ANY of their own data. After all its just free market.
I think Cameron's trying to be a soppy dictator but I don't get this idiotic sentiment that the government, defence contractors and intelligence agencies of all things must make all of their information public.
Spoiler: revelvant (click to show/hide)
I mean yeah, transparency with who's paying who what, but intelligence and defence? I roll my eyes every time someone tries to justify security over liberty and even I find that notion ludicrously jeopardizing security too much.
The ideal is that the citizens maintain their privacy and the gov and their warhounds maintain theirs, with watchdogs over them.
And like Cameron's foppish attempts at trying to screw euroskeptics, he's doomed to failure.

I don't even think Cameron wants or particularly cares about wanting to end strong encryption in public and journalist hands. Sounds like Theresa May requested it of him.
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