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[Boltgun]

Why do many people here have such a boner for total freedom of expression? Some limits simply are sensible.
I like the German legislation on the subject: We have a crime called Volksverhetzung - getting the masses to hound a group, roughly.

Spoiler: German text and a rough translation by yours truly (click to show/hide)

]

    Wer in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören,
    1. gegen eine nationale, rassische, religiöse oder durch ihre ethnische Herkunft bestimmte Gruppe, gegen Teile der Bevölkerung oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen seiner Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung zum Hass aufstachelt, zu Gewalt- oder Willkürmaßnahmen auffordert oder
    2. die Menschenwürde anderer dadurch angreift, dass er eine vorbezeichnete Gruppe, Teile der Bevölkerung oder einen Einzelnen wegen seiner Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung beschimpft, böswillig verächtlich macht oder verleumdet,
    wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.

Anyone who, in a manner apt to disturb the public peace,
1) instigates hate or violent or despotic measures against a national, racial, religious or ethnic group, against parts of the population, or against an individuum because of their membership of such a group or part of the population, or
2) attacks another's human dignity [the fundamental concept of German law] by berating, slandering, or ill-spiritedly degrading [this bit is virtually untranslatable] such a group, parts of the population, or an individuum because of their membership of such a group or part of the population,
will be punished by jailtime of three months to five years.

I do not think this law would apply to Charlie Hebdo, but it does impose a reasonable limit on free expression: It's only okay as long as it does not disturb the peace by attacking others without reason.

Actually there are similar laws in France, except for defamation that is limited to implying false things about people, the examples provided are quite funny. There is also some specifics like revisionism.

I was not a fan of Charlie Hebdo so I won't pretend to love them all of sudden. As much as I liked the cartoonists they often tried too hard to find a scandal and ended often making shortcuts that are too stupid to be enjoyable. But no one should be killed for talking, in fact no one should be killed at all.

Edit: It took balls/ovaries to shake their hands.

[smjjames]

"We don't kill civilians"

Funny, I don't recall the cartoonists even being non-civilians. Just goes to show the hypocrisy on the terrorists part if one of them actually said that.

[Sinistar]

Speaking of the reported shaking hand incident and "we don't kill civilians" stuff, there are some rumors, as of yet not confirmed by the officials, that (one of the) local schools have been evacuated... after the suspects negotiated that? As in, they asked officials to evacuate schools?

Just rumors though, but if true, one has to wonder what kind of creed do those two follow. I do agree that it sounds hipocritical coming from someone who just slaughtered a dozen journalist few days ago, but my guess would be, if they really meant it with "we don't kill civilians", they didn't saw the journalist as such but rather as an enemy, a valid targets. Kinda the same philosophy Hamas uses against Israel people ("every Israel citizen is also a soldier"). Not saying that makes it right though.

Also, there are already news coming from parts of France about mosques being attacked, IIRC one was burned, other defaced with racist graffiti. There was also an explosion in one kebab shop.

[PanH]

Also, speaking about yesterday's gunman - there is some talk about some connections between him and the brothers have been made by the police, but nothing clear yet.

This was confirmed (though nothing on the nature of the link). Also, one brother was trained in Yemen.

Edit : negotiations haven't been through yet, so it's not them who asked for evacuation.

[PanH]

Double post, but gunshots and hostages taken Porte de Vincennes. It appears to be Montrouge's gunman

[smjjames]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

[Phmcw]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

[smjjames]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

What would Belgian military retaliation on their own soil look like?

[sneakey pete]

FN stands for a french far right party, not belgium i beleive.

[smjjames]

Okay, French then. Unless what Phmcw means by retaliation is joining the fight against ISIS.

Also, there is a second standoff going on in Paris in a grocery store.

Also, speaking about yesterday's gunman - there is some talk about some connections between him and the brothers have been made by the police, but nothing clear yet.

This was confirmed (though nothing on the nature of the link). Also, one brother was trained in Yemen.

Edit : negotiations haven't been through yet, so it's not them who asked for evacuation.

I thought it would be standard operating procedure to evacuate the school?

[Helgoland]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

What would Belgian military retaliation on their own soil look like?

I believe he meant (para-)military retaliation by veterans that are members of FN.

[Phmcw]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They'd could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

What would Belgian military retaliation on their own soil look like?

I believe he meant (para-)military retaliation by veterans that are members of FN.

That would be part of the problem, but nothing next to what happen if they lay their hands on the actual army.

They attack ISIS's camp, raze any village that support them, cut their supply lines to cause a famine, and keep attacking their homeland from out of reach untill the population that support them is depleted or too terrorised to resitst. And they'll strike a deal with Assad, probably with Putin too.

Basically to supress an insurection, your strike their supports , not their fighters, any colonial know this.

For what'll happen in the "cités" that's anyone guess. Though once peoples stop beliving the "there are hardly any extremist" and "Islam is harmless 90% of the cases" lies, they'll probably go for the other extreme.

[smjjames]

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

What would Belgian military retaliation on their own soil look like?

I believe he meant (para-)military retaliation by veterans that are members of FN.

So, they'd be something like the British Defense League (or something like that), just more violent and vigilante?

I know it would be horrible to say this and I don't support it, but how long before churches get attacked? Those mosques getting attacked is just ripe for retaliation.

Never, they'll go after left wing or governemental symbol , Christianity is close to be a non factor, here. The median age of attendance must easilly be over 50.

They could try to attack the FN, but that'd be a really, really bad idea. With added legitimacy they may have a real shot at winning the next elections, and other radical parties with them.
That would mean immediate military retaliation, and they won't fuck around like the US did : They have enough old colonials in their ranks to know what work.

What would Belgian military retaliation on their own soil look like?

I believe he meant (para-)military retaliation by veterans that are members of FN.

That would be part of the problem, but nothing next to what happen if they lay their hands on the actual army.

They attack ISIS's camp, raze any village that support them, cut their supply lines to cause a famine, and keep attacking their homeland from out of reach untill the population that support them is depleted or too terrorised to resitst. And they'll strike a deal with Assad, probably with Putin too.

Uh, that sounds a lot like what the US tried to do in Vietnam, and we all know how well that worked out. Aside from the striking a deal with Syria or Russia.

Though I don't know how much village pillaging was actually done in Vietnam.

[Vilanat]

It appears there are casualties in the supermarket hostage situation near paris. all of the hostages are women and children.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/port-de-vincinnes-shooting-live-4948241

[PanH]

5 hostages and no casualties yet, but one wounded so far : http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/09/prise-d-otages-dans-une-epicerie-casher-a-la-sortie-de-paris_1176953