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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[4maskwolf]

You're overly optimistic. They'll just blame Obama. I mean, people blame him for things that happened before he got into office, why do you think they'll stop when he leaves?

Edit: There's a meme in that...

Like how people in 2008-2012 blamed everything on Bush?

Yep.  It's the time-honored tradition of politics, which can be somewhat summarized in this flowchart:

[smjjames]

All of a sudden Defense Secretary Hagel is stepping down, I don't really know the reason though.

Unless it's the usual midterm transition? CNN is certainly treating it as if it was unexpected.

[mainiac]

Like how people in 2008-2012 blamed everything on Bush?

There is a slight difference there in that Bush left office with two unfinished wars and just after the largest financial crisis of 100 years.  (The 2007 subprime crisis was actually bigger than the black Tuesday that lead to the Great Depression, we'd just learned from our mistakes).

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Like how people in 2008-2012 blamed everything on Bush?

There is a slight difference there in that Bush left office with two unfinished wars and just after the largest financial crisis of 100 years.  (The 2007 subprime crisis was actually bigger than the black Tuesday that lead to the Great Depression, we'd just learned from our mistakes).

The financial crisis was not his fault, really.  It was the banks giving out loans that people couldn't pay back.

Iraq was based off of information that was thought to be true, and considering the climate of the area, an invasion made sense.

Afghanistan was immediately in the wake of 9/11.  Really think anyone was in their best mindset for that one?

Should note that the US was in there so long as there is a precinct that was made after one of the early wars (I can't remember precisely which one.  I think it was Mexican-American.  Interesting fact, if the attack on the 'capital' of Canada during the revolutionary war succeeded, and the treaty to the Mexican-American war had been delayed by a week, it is possible that the United States would have both of those countries as a part of it.) that after the war, we stick around to fix everything we messed up.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Iraq was based off of information that was thought to be true, and considering the climate of the area, an invasion made sense.

Afghanistan was immediately in the wake of 9/11.  Really think anyone was in their best mindset for that one?

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban. Iraq was a useless war. Iraq war was sold to the public by an administration that knew it's information was false and/or misleading at the time when presented to the public. The war and hostilities was entirely ginned up.


[Because his daddy already had a vendetta for Iraqi oil and his VP/dark lord of bureaucracy was an Oil man]

[smjjames]

Iraq was based off of information that was thought to be true, and considering the climate of the area, an invasion made sense.

Afghanistan was immediately in the wake of 9/11.  Really think anyone was in their best mindset for that one?

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban. Iraq was a useless war. Iraq war was sold to the public by an administration that knew it's information was false and/or misleading at the time when presented to the public. The war and hostilities was entirely ginned up.


[Because his daddy already had a vendetta for Iraqi oil]

Wasn't the war in Afganistan part of the general war on terror? Not to mention the fact that it was a safe harbor for terrorists.

I do agree with the fact that the Iraq war part was useless (despite the overthrowing a dictator justification) because it was on false information. Hell, the informant wasn't a credible one and it came via torture at the hands of the Egyptians.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban.

Let me see.

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

Yeah, Afghanistan may not have been where they were from, but it was probably the only 'safe' option.

[LordSlowpoke]

pakistan and murikka were pretty bro-shaped until murikka started drone striking the fuck out of everyone without two fucks given actually

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

..... And this justifies creating a new front against the Taliban in the USSR's graveyard because?

[Sheb]

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban.

Let me see.

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

Yeah, Afghanistan may not have been where they were from, but it was probably the only 'safe' option.

So, basically, you just needed to invade a country and Afghanistan was the only one available?

[mainiac]

Iraq was based off of information that was thought to be true, and considering the climate of the area, an invasion made sense.

Other NATO members said the "intelligence" was BS and major US newspapers were running rebuttals.  It's not the case that nobody could have known because most people did know.  The Bush administration only got by on the benefit of the doubt because people assumed that the classified stuff must have been ironclad but it turns out the classified stuff was hot air.

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia might have been neglectful but that's not a whole lot to go on.  The Afgan government organized the attack...

[Mictlantecuhtli]

There was no such thing as an afghan government at that time. It was the forces friendly to Osama's cohorts. Most of them from.. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, because the USSR had destabilized Afghanistan and made it into a hub for terror.

[smjjames]

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

..... And this justifies creating a new front against the Taliban in the USSR's graveyard because?

... Bin Ladin was hiding there? Or WAS anyway, we eventually found out that he was actually hiding in Pakistan, our so called 'ally'.

It's also the British Empires graveyard, they fought like five wars in there I think.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

..... And this justifies creating a new front against the Taliban in the USSR's graveyard because?

... Bin Ladin was hiding there? Or WAS anyway, we eventually found out that he was actually hiding in Pakistan, our so called 'ally'.

It's also the British Empires graveyard, they fought like five wars in there I think.

No. He wasn't. He was in Pakistan at all points after the Taliban/USSR conflict. And the claims that he was on the field in Afghanistan during that time is also questionable.

[Sheb]

Wasn't he in Tora Bora?