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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Baffler]

Again, I was never actually saying that was a bad thing. Just pointing out a typo.

The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

[wierd]

Yes, "In the event of a government", anarchy will be abolished!

[The quote from the article implies "govenrment shutdown", but omits the "shutdown". I noticed it too, but make too many errors on these forums to sensibly play grammarian with a straight face.]

[misko27]

I was just pointing out the typo. I can see how you could have got that though.

The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

in the event of a government.

Of all the places to omit a word...

In the event of a, hmm. Does that mean they actually increased the number of employees? Do they cut employees every election then?

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method 

I was going to say something, but there is nothing to add onto this.

A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

Firstly, I believe they are not. Secondly, it is worth noting that the DHS includes a large variety of duties, including Border Control, Customs, Immigration and Naturalization Services, the police specialized in protecting government buildings, the Coast guard, the Secret Service, Cyber-security, and disasters of all types, including Weather and man-made ones. They also run FEMA. Most of that is considered essential for obvious reasons.

I'd even stop the DHS from running. Just let the Mexican pour in, and make sure that terrorists will target every single Republican Senator until they find none to kill.

Anyone still in the illusion that American Democracy works (or is actually a democracy) need a fact check. Nothing short of a unitary state with a Dutch-style parliament with low barrier for Swiss-style referendum is not a democracy, by definition.

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method 

I was going to say something, but there is nothing to add onto this.

A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

Firstly, I believe they are not. Secondly, it is worth noting that the DHS includes a large variety of duties, including Border Control, Customs, Immigration and Naturalization Services, the police specialized in protecting government buildings, the Coast guard, the Secret Service, Cyber-security, and disasters of all types, including Weather and man-made ones. They also run FEMA. Most of that is considered essential for obvious reasons.

I'd even stop the DHS from running. Just let the Mexican pour in, and make sure that terrorists will target every single Republican Senator until they find none to kill.

Anyone still in the illusion that American Democracy works (or is actually a democracy) need a fact check. Nothing short of a unitary state with a Dutch-style parliament with low barrier for Swiss-style referendum is not a democracy, by definition.

First, Immigration needs to be relaxed, not removed. It's there for a reason after all, and it's not simply racism. Second, many people would think of Naturalization services, Customs, police protecting government buildings, the coast guard, and FEMA as very important. DHS have less of a impact on preventing terrorism then most agencies ostensibly about that, the FBI for example has a far larger hand it it. I don't know about an advocate of democracy wanting to kill democratically elected leaders though.

Second, there was no comment to respond too that could have prompted the "Illusion of America" reply.

[FearfulJesuit]

Two weeks left to default. Things aren't looking good for Boehner at this point. He basically has two options:

a) Let the Tea Party run the show and default, crashing the world economy and causing voters to bay for the GOP's blood.

b) Suck it up and raise the debt ceiling with mostly Democratic votes, leading to a likely revolt from his right flank and a probable strengthening of the Tea Party in 2014 as primary voters rush to dethrone sane Congressmen. This could lead to default again down the road.

He's a stodgy old coward...but I can't help but feel pity for him.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

so, i'm waiting to receive a few thousand dollars as a compensation for my father's death... am i to expect them to be worthless when i finally get them? if for some miracle i get the money before the default, should i spend it all in platinum?

[LordSlowpoke]

Thanks to the article posted a while back it occurs to me that the Tea Party is, unironically, the pinnacle of democracy. Hear me out here though - Wall Street can't influence them, since they don't really need campaign money. They have support that isn't caused by millions thrown into advertising, and their current extremism is simply representing their voters. Which sort of makes me respect the bunch.

Now that I said it, feel free to tell me why this view is horrible. No, really, tell me. It makes too much sense.

[Sheb]

You do realize they were largely set up by republicans big donors, right?

[evilcherry]

Two weeks left to default. Things aren't looking good for Boehner at this point. He basically has two options:

a) Let the Tea Party run the show and default, crashing the world economy and causing voters to bay for the GOP's blood.

b) Suck it up and raise the debt ceiling with mostly Democratic votes, leading to a likely revolt from his right flank and a probable strengthening of the Tea Party in 2014 as primary voters rush to dethrone sane Congressmen. This could lead to default again down the road.

He's a stodgy old coward...but I can't help but feel pity for him.

c) Mint One Trillion Dollar Coins.

[mainiac]

He's a stodgy old coward...but I can't help but feel pity for him.

Don't, he painted himself into this corner willingly.

[Descan]

so, i'm waiting to receive a few thousand dollars as a compensation for my father's death... am i to expect them to be worthless when i finally get them? if for some miracle i get the money before the default, should i spend it all in platinum?

Convert it to Zimbabwean dollars. By the time this all blows over, those'll be worth millions of USD!

[Scoops Novel]

This can either be the impotent rage thread, or we could discuss this as if it was a tactical move rather then that of idiots who somehow run America.

[FearfulJesuit]

He's a stodgy old coward...but I can't help but feel pity for him.

Don't, he painted himself into this corner willingly.

I'm not so sure. Remember...was it this spring, when he almost got voted out of the Speakery? From his point of view, if he pisses off the rest of the GOP and they abandon him, then either a Tea Partier or (worse) a Democrat becomes speaker. The GOP have mandate to govern, as he sees it, so Pelosi can't become speaker, but he can't abandon the party to the crazies, so neither can Bachmann or her ilk. He's been succeeding with his balancing act just about as well as anybody could have up to this point, but the next two weeks may prove it untenable.

Now, if he does get voted out, then I suspect Pelosi will become Speaker- and I certainly dislike Pelosi, but she wouldn't let default happen; we'd raise the debt ceiling and get the government back up and running. I don't think Bachmann could possibly become speaker, she's too insane...although the fear of primary action may tempt the GOP hivemind into electing her anyways.

Neither option is good for the GOP. None of them particularly like Boehner, but he's the only force that can keep the party together. If a Dem becomes speaker, the party will seize up, panic, and abandon all pretenses of party unity to the wind, in a popcorny but tragic catfight the likes of which we haven't seen in a century and a half. If Bachmann becomes speaker, it's game over; she won't let a vote to keep the government up or raise the debt ceiling come to the floor unless it also involves a total repeal (delay's for pansies and liberal sympathizers, dontchaknow) of Obamacare, which the Senate and White House will laugh back to the House; unless she shows a sudden flash of sanity (and she won't) we'll default.

In the meantime, a candid and insightful quote from GOP Representative Marlin Stutzman of Indiana:

""We're not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

[Baffler]

This can either be the impotent rage thread, or we could discuss this as if it was a tactical move rather then that of idiots who somehow run America.

Okay then, I can get behind this.

Do you think the Tea Party's showing in the House considers this to be brinkmanship, or do they honestly want a default if it means shutting down the ACA? In this light, the former is likely true, because the latter would also mean a serious blow to things they actually like. I think what will end up happening is that Boehner manages to shut them down at the last minute, and pass something to kick the can down the road by a few months. From there it's just a question of how far. If the Tea Party, or Republicans in general for that matter, do well in 2014, it could mean that they could push the issue more effectively, but at this juncture I don't see that happening easily.

Misko made a good point a few pages back. These people are not representing everyone in the country, they are representing the people in their own districts who sent them to Congress on their behalf. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but IIRC they are still reasonably popular there, where it actually matters. At least more popular than anyone who runs on a democratic ticket could hope to be. They MIGHT be ousted by another Republican but that wouldn't make much of a difference for our purposes.

[Bauglir]

Yeah, that's the problem, of course. Each member of Congress is despised, but only by the people who didn't elect them.

"We're not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

I bet I know what it isn't! It's certainly not going to be a recognition of the hypocrisy inherent in claiming to serve the American people above all else, while at the same time resorting to batshit insane legal technicalities, which they'd have no need for if they actually had a mandate to govern, and endangerment of those people as a strategy for "serving" them.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Bachmann is in the running for Speaker?!

Oh my god, I thought the worst case scenario was Cruz, but Bachmann? That's some ASB horror show-level shit.