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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 171 172 [173] 174 175 ... 667

Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 832617 times)

misko27

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Essential Activities
« Reply #2580 on: October 02, 2013, 04:36:45 pm »

On a side note, apparently the shutdown also furloughs 90% of the department of energy. Nuclear should be unaffected, but still...

Who invented this system anyway

quick googling suggests it was a senator from Baltimore in 1869, with the bill being passed in 1870 initially

you're on your own from then
The Antideficiency Act was passed in 1884 and is rather innocent for a law. It states the government cannot spend money or contract to spend money it does not have in a appropriation or fund. Furthermore, The ADA prohibits the federal government from entering into a contract that is not "fully funded" because doing so would obligate the government in the absence of an appropriation adequate to the needs of the contract. It implements most of Article I of the Constitution.

Essential activities are determined by the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget. A general list of all practical consequences is available by the US government Web Portal, here. A List of important offices and how the shutdown affects them is available from ABC News, here. A full list of all effects organized per Department has been made available by the OMB, here

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wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2581 on: October 02, 2013, 04:47:21 pm »

Quick and dirty:

Around 300,000 people have been furloughed. (Lowball, without proper adding, from above list. The number will be higher than this when correctly tabulated.)

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Baffler

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2582 on: October 02, 2013, 07:55:01 pm »

A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

Quote
The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Iceblaster

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2583 on: October 02, 2013, 08:02:00 pm »

So after overhearing my parents, my dad will have to take all Fridays off this month on furlough.

IIRC he works in the field of Nuclear Health and Safety... Here's hoping he isn't laid off or fired or what have you.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2584 on: October 02, 2013, 08:07:23 pm »

Don't worry, there are only two Fridays before Doomsday, so either he won't be taking more than that off or nobody else will have a job either.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Max White

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2585 on: October 02, 2013, 08:45:03 pm »

I hear the Tea Party wants to make this run for the grand total of a week just to prove that the country can still function without many of its services and therefor they should be cut all together. Not sure just how reliable this analysis is, but that is what was said on the news at least.

wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2586 on: October 02, 2013, 09:11:17 pm »

Their experiment does not have a large enough sample size to prove anything of the sort, and running the experiment that long would bankrupt the country. Not to mention that conducting an experiment in this fashion would run foul of just about every ethics comittee in the universe if this were a medical trial experiment, (which is the closest kind of experiment I can immediately come up with.)

1) sample size. 7 days.
2) uncontrolled variables (holy fuck, do I have to enumerate them?)
3) due to the above, no useful causal relations can be established
4) the deactivation of vital services will have unexpected side effects, which needs followup investigation. (Hence the drug or medical trial experiment analog. They are testing a "treatment.")

The tea party should have its medical license revoked.
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SalmonGod

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2587 on: October 02, 2013, 09:24:06 pm »

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method  :D
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Pnx

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2588 on: October 02, 2013, 09:34:24 pm »

While it's going to bite more and more the longer it goes on, the real trouble won't start until the US starts defaulting on it's debts later in the month. Assuming the republicans are crazy enough to let that happen.
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Max White

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2589 on: October 02, 2013, 09:34:37 pm »

I'm sure the tea party is composed of rational people that got where they are through sound policy and willingness to work with others to achieve outcomes that help everybody and I can't fucking do it. I just can't even type that without breaking out into laughter.

misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2590 on: October 02, 2013, 09:43:28 pm »

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method  :D
I was going to say something, but there is nothing to add onto this.


A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

Quote
The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.
Firstly, I believe they are not. Secondly, it is worth noting that the DHS includes a large variety of duties, including Border Control, Customs, Immigration and Naturalization Services, the police specialized in protecting government buildings, the Coast guard, the Secret Service, Cyber-security, and disasters of all types, including Weather and man-made ones. They also run FEMA. Most of that is considered essential for obvious reasons.
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Baffler

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2591 on: October 02, 2013, 09:45:46 pm »

I was just pointing out the typo. I can see how you could have got that though.

Quote
The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

Quote
would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.

Quote
in the event of a government.

Of all the places to omit a word...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 09:47:17 pm by Baffler »
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

evilcherry

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2592 on: October 02, 2013, 09:48:20 pm »

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method  :D
I was going to say something, but there is nothing to add onto this.


A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

Quote
The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.
Firstly, I believe they are not. Secondly, it is worth noting that the DHS includes a large variety of duties, including Border Control, Customs, Immigration and Naturalization Services, the police specialized in protecting government buildings, the Coast guard, the Secret Service, Cyber-security, and disasters of all types, including Weather and man-made ones. They also run FEMA. Most of that is considered essential for obvious reasons.

I'd even stop the DHS from running. Just let the Mexican pour in, and make sure that terrorists will target every single Republican Senator until they find none to kill.

Anyone still in the illusion that American Democracy works (or is actually a democracy) need a fact check. Nothing short of a unitary state with a Dutch-style parliament with low barrier for Swiss-style referendum is not a democracy, by definition.

wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2593 on: October 02, 2013, 09:51:26 pm »

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method  :D


It's what happens when you hire a faith healer.

The comment was more in line with rebutting the "see! The government didn't die! The teatment works!" Line of "wtf, that isn't... I don't even!" "Logic" mentioned earlier as having been on the news.

It's total "DUH!" To anyone who has even spent a few hours awake in a science class, but for the mainstream populace? Sorry, but again, they hired faith healers.
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Lagslayer

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: QUINDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2594 on: October 02, 2013, 10:00:17 pm »

Criticizing the tea party on its scientific method  :D
I was going to say something, but there is nothing to add onto this.


A lot of people, mostly staff who are necessary but not particularly important, are expected to come in without any pay, too. Are they accounted for in those figures?

I'll just leave this here.

Quote
The Department of Homeland Security, which employees 231,117 people (including 41,364 USCG military personnel) would cut it's employees by 13.5%, in the event of a government.
Firstly, I believe they are not. Secondly, it is worth noting that the DHS includes a large variety of duties, including Border Control, Customs, Immigration and Naturalization Services, the police specialized in protecting government buildings, the Coast guard, the Secret Service, Cyber-security, and disasters of all types, including Weather and man-made ones. They also run FEMA. Most of that is considered essential for obvious reasons.

I'd even stop the DHS from running. Just let the Mexican pour in, and make sure that terrorists will target every single Republican Senator until they find none to kill.

Anyone still in the illusion that American Democracy works (or is actually a democracy) need a fact check. Nothing short of a unitary state with a Dutch-style parliament with low barrier for Swiss-style referendum is not a democracy, by definition.
I'd argue that it's more a problem with large, diverse democracies. Too many people with too many different backgrounds and different opinions. Nobody can agree on anything, and do something that pleases one group of people and 2/3 of the people will hate you vehemently for it. This is because people naturally focus on negative things more than positive, and so see differences easier than similarities. This has caused the system to become about electing the lesser evil instead of the better candidate (not objectively, but in one's own eyes), and any would-be debate to turn into a shouting match as all sides refuse or are incapable of comprehending their opponents' internal logic.

Logic is a process, not the end solution. Don't confuse logic with morality.

I felt the tangential points were necessary to give context.
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