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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[misko27]

I think that's been proven to be a load of bullocks. Fact is, most of these people are just as reprehensible on platforms where they have no anonymity at all.

The modified form of "no consequences" is much more reasonable. Audiance+No Consequences is more than enough incentive for a great many people to turn into raging asshats.

Exactly. This is how society functions. It's the purpose of names and any ID, to make you not able to escape your past.

Cause there are people who instead of getting their kicks directly being assholish... get their kicks from digging up the dirt in the name of 'social justice' and distributing it.  Destroying someone else without consequences.

It goes both ways, trolling can and will get more personal.  Can it be classified as bullying if it gets to that?

This sorta ignores what I was going with. You can hurt someone in almost anyway, And we need not open up a discussion about personal reform and whether people was going with. I could be a dick by subverting any form of law and order, or chaos. I could be a dick in any number of ways, but this is not a discussion of that. I could abuse my little sister in the name of helping her, and there wouldn't be a damn thing anyone could do about it if I hide it well enough. What you gonna do? Ban big brothers? Can't take down a idea because of how someone might subvert it.
 

misko, most of the population doesn't CARE if their name or id is attached to their actions, because as long as they aren't acting within their own immediate monkey sphere (aren't shitting where they eat) there are not going to be any consequences of note.

The internet gives people opportunities to be vile more often and find a supportive audience for it. Anonymity, imo, barely plays a role in that. The only exception is if people are in a situation where they can face serious consequences for their actions, but the number of people who post this sort of stuff under their own name or even with their facebook account have put a lie to the fact that "names" and "id" and "being unable to escape from your past" are somehow enough to do put a dent in that behaviour, when they aren't.

This makes me sad. I'm not implying it offends people will be shamed into beig decent, I'm saying the ID forces consequences to follow you, to hit home. Otherwise it's just a random dude in the street spouting racial slurs at people! It's when someone recognizes him, or he drops his wallet, or something, that he deals the consequences (other then being beaten up by the applicable races. Another thing the internet lacks)

[tryrar]

Maybe, though I think we're starting to really derail this thread now. Quick, we need another scandal to laugh about!

Edit: Actually, found something: Jeb Bsuh wants to let states decide who uses emergency rooms, which basically means kick out anyone who doesn't have a legal status in the US.


....And here I remember him being one of the SANER republicans! I mean he was one of the saner Governors of this state, but then again, this being Florida that's not actually saying much . After all, we managed to elect a guy accused of massive Medicare fraud, and who has subsequently proven to be the most corrupt guy since the political machines of Chicago of the 60's!

[Nadaka]

Maybe, though I think we're starting to really derail this thread now. Quick, we need another scandal to laugh about!

Edit: Actually, found something: Jeb Bsuh wants to let states decide who uses emergency rooms, which basically means kick out anyone who doesn't have a legal status in the US.


....And here I remember him being one of the SANER republicans! I mean he was one of the saner Governors of this state, but then again, this being Florida that's not actually saying much . After all, we managed to elect a guy accused of massive Medicare fraud, and who has subsequently proven to be the most corrupt guy since the political machines of Chicago of the 60's!

Accused? The company he owned and ran was convicted of organized and pervasive medicare fraud.

[Frumple]

Jeb was out before I really started paying much attention to things. Most I remember of him is pretty much every Florida teacher (below higher education, anyway, as I didn't have any contact with that before he was out) I've met basically hate his guts. Dude did very few favors for an already pretty terrible education system.* So... dunno how sane he was, but from what I remember he was pretty terrible regardless of comparative sanity.

*Not entirely his fault, but he had a large influence in it -- note well that FCAT is a thing seen with goddamn loathing by Florida's teacher population, and not because of how it ties into spending and job performance assessment. It is a shitty, shitty thing to be putting so much emphasis on and has had a tangible and pretty strong negative effect on the quality of student Florida has been putting out.

[SalmonGod]

Then there's the whole thing with the 2000 presidential elections...

[ansontan2000]

Then there's the whole thing with the 2000 presidential elections...

Oh let's not get into that. Please.

[Nadaka]

Then there's the whole thing with the 2000 presidential elections...

Oh let's not get into that. Please.

Yea, lets not talk about the undemocratic overthrow of the will of the American people and the betrayal of everything we stand for.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Then there's the whole thing with the 2000 presidential elections...

Oh let's not get into that. Please.

Yea, lets not talk about the undemocratic overthrow of the will of the American people and the betrayal of everything we stand for.

Now hold up a moment. Bush did win the election under the laws of the United States, fair and square. And it is not as if he was just some guy, 50% of the people who voted did so for him. That wasn't the first time the Electoral College system had allowed a candidate to win without the popular vote, and until we abolish it it will likely not be last.

[Nadaka]

Except he didn't "win" the electoral vote under the election laws of the US. There was fraud involved.

[RedKing]

Then there's the whole thing with the 2000 presidential elections...

Oh let's not get into that. Please.

Yea, lets not talk about the undemocratic overthrow of the will of the American people and the betrayal of everything we stand for.

Now hold up a moment. Bush did win the election under the laws of the United States, fair and square. And it is not as if he was just some guy, 50% of the people who voted did so for him. That wasn't the first time the Electoral College system had allowed a candidate to win without the popular vote, and until we abolish it it will likely not be last.

I think it was more a reference to the political chicanery with the FL Board of Elections, and the SC intervening to stop the recounts. The latter I can somewhat understand, the former though....when the candidate's brother's hand-appointed election official is the one overseeing the recount, it just doesn't look good.

[Reelya]

There were multiple types of fraud going on at the same time, one of them was incorrectly purged voter rolls:

nytimes 2004:

Florida List for Purge of Voters Proves Flawed
By FORD FESSENDEN
Published: July 10, 2004

Florida election officials used a flawed method to come up with a listing of people believed to be convicted felons, a list that they are recommending be used to purge voter registration rolls, state officials acknowledged yesterday. As a result, voters identifying themselves as Hispanic are almost completely absent from that list.

Of nearly 48,000 Florida residents on the felon list, only 61 are Hispanic. By contrast, more than 22,000 are African-American.

About 8 percent of Florida voters describe themselves as Hispanic, and about 11 percent as black.

In a presidential-election battleground state that decided the 2000 race by giving George W. Bush a margin of only 537 votes, the effect could be significant: black voters are overwhelmingly Democratic, while Hispanics in Florida tend to vote Republican.

i.e. the "errors" only affected groups demographically aligned with Democrats (in GW Bush's brother's state). BTW the company which provided the lists has ties to the Republican party and was hand-picked by Jeb Bush's protege.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File#Errors_in_the_list

In May 2000, DBT discovered that approximately 8,000 names were erroneously placed on the exclusion list, mostly those of former Texas prisoners who were included on a DBT list that turned out never to have been convicted of more than a misdemeanor. Later in the month, DBT provided a revised list to the Division of Elections (DOE) containing a total of 173,127 persons. Of those included on the "corrected list", 57,746 were identified as felons.

Details about the errors

There were many specific problems with the purge list regarding the verification of felons, including over 4,000 blank conviction dates, and over 325 conviction dates dating in the future.[11]

Nearly 3,000 out-of-state felons with voting rights restored, as well as voters linked to felonies in states which do not remove felons from voting rolls or that automatically restore voting rights, were included on the list. According to a 1998 ruling by the 2nd District Court of Appeals, they cannot then be ruled ineligible by another state.[citation needed]

DBT had decided in March 1999 not to include felon lists from South Carolina or Texas, which automatically restore voting rights, but that was overruled by the head of the Florida Office of Executive Clemency, Janet Keels, who ordered inclusion of any felon who did not have a written order of clemency, even from these states, wrongly placing 996 voters on the felon list. Florida did not restore their voting rights until three months after the election.

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-great-florida-ex-con-gamernhow-the-felon-voter-purge-was-itself-felonious/

Neither DBT nor the state conducted any further research to verify the matches. DBT, which frequently is hired by the F.B.I. to conduct manhunts, originally proposed using address histories and financial records to confirm the names, but the state declined the cross-checks. In [catherine] Harris's elections office files, next to DBT's sophisticated verification plan, there is a hand-written note: DON'T NEED

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jun/05/bill-nelson/bill-nelson-compares-rick-scotts-voter-purge-2000-/

The company warned the state that many people on the list would not be felons, but officials wanted DTS to use broad parameters -- that meant more felons off the rolls.

People whose names appeared on the list of more than 50,000 names had to prove their innocence or automatically be dropped from the rolls within several weeks of receiving written notice. Twenty counties ignored the state’s directive because they found the data unreliable, including the Madison County elections supervisor, who found her own name among suspected felon voters.

News organizations unearthed numerous accounts of law-abiding citizens turned away at the polls because they could not prove their innocence. Several thousand people appealed to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and half were found to not be felons.

It was clearly enough to tip an election with only 537 votes in the balance.

[GreatJustice]

In other news, Rand Paul has been fillibustering for the past 6 hours the old fashioned way, by talking and talking and talking until the nominated CIA head answers his questions regarding drone bombings.

EDIT: Live stream

[misko27]

Rand paul ladies and gentlemen, The Obama Administrations greatest Troll. He is the one guy who figured out how best to beat Obama.\
 
By being really, really, really annoying.

[USEC_OFFICER]

When did it get to the point where the guy fillibustering seems like some kind of hero? At least Rand Paul has the stamina to stand for several hours instead of hiding behind procedure . Goddamn it America, how did you get this way?

[Sirus]

Oh, back in the late 30s I guess.