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[Gentlefish]

Make that at least seven. I seriously think Toady should keep doing what he's doing. He's happy, and we get to help him test a beautiful game. I think of myself as a bugtester for the great toad, and imagine that we all are. It makes sense, if you think about it. We're playing a game in alpha mode. He's given us the ability to report the hundreds of bugs that are inevitably in the dense code of this game.

Plus, for how thick the code is, you can fit the whole damn thing on a 1 gigabyte USB stick and play it anywhere. Do that with any other game, I dare you.

[eccentricheathen]

If someone doesn't like the interface, they can kindly fuck off.  I don't wanna sound like an asshole here, but why the hell would Toady change his game for other people?  It's his game, and he isn't doing it to get money or fame.  He doesn't have any problem with it taking a while to make.

Seriously, if we didn't exist Toady would probably still be trying to make his game.  We're the ones benefiting here.  To quote an old rhyme: "ya get what ya get and ya don't throw a fit."

I believe everyone can benefit from constructive input.  Besides, it's a free country where I live, so I'll keep doing as I please, and you sir are the one who can kindly fuck off. 

[MonkeyHead]

Oh for fucks sake, another one of these threads? Really? I mean, come on, this issue has been discussed to death already here many, many times.

Toadys magnum opus. We are along for the ride. End of.

[Thecard]

Well, yeah, you can criticize him all you want, but I don't think you should get your hopes up that he'll change anything to cater to others.  It's his game, after all.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Art cannot be rushed. That is all.

[eccentricheathen]

Any hope for this part getting answered at least?

"One last question.  I remember a few versions back there was a version of DF someone made.  It was kind of like a Lazy Newb Pack, but not quite that simplified.  I think it was called Dwarf Fortress Plus or something (I know when it installed the folder name was either "DF+" or something similar).  Does anyone know if that exists for the current version?  IMHO it was even better than the LNP.  Thanks for any help!"

Also, guys, relax, I love the game, if I didn't I wouldn't have made this post in the first place.  I just think some parts of it could use improvement.  Building a cult around Toady is all well and good, but just remember you might be insulating him from the truth sometimes. 

[Dyret]

It's not so much building a cult around Toady as understanding how the development actually works... He knows the interface sucks, he's working on it, and in a couple of years we might see improvement here and there. Keep in mind splitting stacks in adventure mode is a new thing. If you want the finished product come back in twenty years, if not, you just have to be patient. Being obnoxious to the community isn't going to accomplish much, either way.

[Loud Whispers]

And to the jerks... well, being you is punishment enough.

Aaaaah the passive aggressiveness run awaaaaaay

I just wonder if perhaps hiring a coder or four that share his vision and could help him out might be a good idea.

Toady's project. Same reason he doesn't open source DF.

The only difference is that the dwarves either complete their vision or go insane.  Has me worried about Toady...

Their visions also take a while to complete, with things being added all the time - and are only truly realized when finally viewed in their complete form.

2.  Could someone explain to me how much all the "depth" in the coding actually adds to the game?  I'll be honest, it's not the fluid mechanics and geological layer generation (or whatever) that have me hooked on this game.

The fluid mechanics are the reason I found this game in the first place :3

I find combat in the game really difficult to decypher (I don't think it necessary to list fifty lines of my Dwarf's fat layer getting hit, or whatever).

/50 lines of our Dwarf getting hit, and bruised. If you do not like watching the fight step by step and just want to see the result of encounters, (v) (w) or (v) (z) (enter) or (k) (enter).

Creating a water reservoir is an absolute pain.

Realism and Fun.

Getting the dwarves to actually do what I want them to do shouldn't involve wading through the bugs to figure out which one is keeping my dwarf from his assigned task.

The epidemic you describe does not exist. There is one labour crippling bug I know of; that is beekeeping. Beekeeping is not something most people play DF for, though I know of one.

If I recall correctly, perhaps a good example of how frustrating it can be is how the keys used to select more than one item changes arbitrarily depending on what thing you are trying to select (sometimes it's arrows and sometimes it letters, it should be one or the other, not different depending on the circumstance).  That's not depth, it's poor design.  It just seems like so much of the game is complicated just to be complicated, rather than from necessity.   

+ / -
< / >

I give up
3hard5me

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If someone doesn't like the interface, they can kindly fuck off.  I don't wanna sound like an asshole here, but why the hell would Toady change his game for other people?  It's his game, and he isn't doing it to get money or fame.  He doesn't have any problem with it taking a while to make.

Seriously, if we didn't exist Toady would probably still be trying to make his game.  We're the ones benefiting here.  To quote an old rhyme: "ya get what ya get and ya don't throw a fit."

I believe everyone can benefit from constructive input.  Besides, it's a free country where I live, so I'll keep doing as I please, and you sir are the one who can kindly fuck off. 

I believe everything here has been discussed to hell and back, and where I live we have this thing called respect and courtesy.
So...
Fuck your kindly fucking off you fucking fuck fucker fucking fuck you fucker you :|

Also, guys, relax, I love the game, if I didn't I wouldn't have made this post in the first place.  I just think some parts of it could use improvement.

We all do.
/Suggestions sub forum.

Building a cult around Toady is all well and good, but just remember you might be insulating him from the truth sometimes.

Don't listen to him Emperor Toady, his words are poison... Yesss... WE NEED MOAAARR INTERFACE, INTERFACE FOR OUR INTERFACE

LET NO MAINSTREAM GAMERS EVER REACH THIS GAME AND SURRVIIIIIIVE

[eccentricheathen]

lol  Well I guess that about ends this thread's usefulness.  Good times.

Also, anyone know where I can find DF+, if it even exists anymore?  Seriously, that was the best modified version of the game I could find...

EDIT:  First line is a lie, I realized after posting.

EDIT #2:  I'm looking for an updated version of http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2533

[Kibstable]

Dwarf Fortress plus - a google search revealed : http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2533
Seems to be updated to last version of DF (0.31.25)

I agree with many of your observations regarding DF interface and speed of development, but I don't expect things to change in a hurry.

If Toady did hire coders I imagine he'd feel like he didn't fully understand the code after they'd done what they were instructed to do, leading to him either rewriting/checking line by line/loosing interest in further development.
Also I imagine his donation income wouldn't cover their fees meaning he would have to actually start selling a product. Then we'd all be buying an unfinished product and complaining instead of testing an alpha product and smiling.

[Thecard]

What about it is a lie?

[eccentricheathen]

Seems to be updated to last version of DF (0.31.25)

Isn't the last version 0.34.11?   

EDIT:  Apparently I don't understand the definition of "last".

Anyone know if there's a DF+ version for 0.34.11 (the latest, not last version)?

[Kibstable]

Seems to be updated to last version of DF (0.31.25)

Isn't the last version 0.34.11?   

Excuse my ambiguity, I didn't mean latest, I guess I meant 'previous'

[eccentricheathen]

What about it is a lie?

I said it ended the thread's usefulness, and then I asked a question that requested a response, turning my claim that the usefulness being over into a lie. 

[eccentricheathen]

Also to everyone involved in this thread, it's honestly quite refreshing to encounter a group of gamers that are completely satisfied and not impatient.  I'm so used to the typical "bitch bitch bitch" that typically comes from gamers...  i.e. my initial posting.

Toady certainly has a worthy cult.  FUN!!!