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[Loud Whispers]

Also, I know I can't be the only one who noticed the similarities between Goblintown and Blighttown.

• Underground.
• Time worn.

Pretty common traits for an inhabited cavern

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I was thinking more about the structures and inhabitants. Also, Blighttown isn't exactly underground. It's under the overhang of a very steep cliff.

[Scoops Novel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8H6v3l18xg

Tolkein's elves.

I demand the Player's behind this to come forward to be welcomed properly.

[Ameablable]

Well, the titles for the other two have already been decided: "The Desolation of Smaug" and "There and Back Again". Due to that, I reckon that the second one will follow the dwarves and end with the death of smaug, with the third one being gandalf's antics with the necormancer, the battle of the five armies, and the ending.

i disagree.
"The desolation of smaug" in the book was where smaug had desolated.
so i want them to end it off when preferably they say the line "behold the desolation of smaug" in the book

edit: i also hate the fact that the movies made goblins and orcs different things. that bugged me from the very start.

[RedKing]

IIRC, the general canon explanation was that the Goblins of The Hobbit were a tribe of snaga (Black Speech, "slave"), lesser orcs that the uruks used for menial labor, cannon fodder and occasionally food. Some of the orcs in the LotR series were snaga (particularly Isengard's warg riders and some of the Mordorian orcs that find Frodo), but most named ones were uruks.

All the Iron Crown RPG materials represented them as fairly distinct from each other, so I think this dichotomy between goblin/snaga and orc/uruk predates the movies by a good bit.

[Vattic]

I thought Tolkien's explanation was that "Orc" was the correct term, but when translating There and Back Again he substituted it for the more modern term "goblin". Later for what became The Lord of the Rings he used the more authentic term. I'm pretty sure this can be found near the beginning of one of his books or maybe I read it in his letters.

[Ameablable]

I thought Tolkien's explanation was that "Orc" was the correct term, but when translating There and Back Again he substituted it for the more modern term "goblin". Later for what became The Lord of the Rings he used the more authentic term. I'm pretty sure this can be found near the beginning of one of his books or maybe I read it in his letters.

it can be found in the beginning of one of them.

[RedKing]

Yeah, think I've read that as well. Historically, he got "goblin" from English (by way of Old French and Latin), whereas "orc" was a much more obscure term that had roots in both Old Norse and Italian, both representing monsters but fairly ambiguous as to the attributes thereof.

I think one reason that popular depictions have differentiated the goblins from orcs is that goblins have a long history in folklore apart from, and preceding, Tolkien. And in that folklore, they're small and sneaky (more like Gollum), whereas there was virtually no folklore of orcs (which are described in numerous places in Tolkien as being man-sized and far more warlike). So the popular notion of what a goblin should look like (think Brian Froud's goblins a la Labyrinth) imprinted itself on depictions of Tolkien's goblins.

[WillowLuman]

I thought Orc was a word he'd invented himself.

[Neonivek]

I thought Orc was a word he'd invented himself.

It certainly explains why EVERYONE can use Orcs.

[XXSockXX]

I always thought "Orc" was an anglization of the french "Ogre", which is a legendary giant and/or monster.

The concept of "Orcs" everyone uses today is completely Tolkiens invention.

[RedKing]

I thought Orc was a word he'd invented himself.

Nope. Apparently, there are "orcneas" mentioned in Beowulf (with little context to suggest what they are....etymologies have included Latin orcus ("the Underworld") and Icelandic örkn suggesting a seal-like beast.

Meanwhile, Renaissance Italian folklore had stories of orco, which were man-sized tusked beasts who lived in seclusion (possibly cognate from porco, "pig") as well as the orca which was a sea-beast (and source of the proper name of "killer whales").

Tolkien himself wrote that the etymology came from the Latin Orcus, however the depiction is far closer to the Italian orco.

[WillowLuman]

Orcus makes sense, though, as their race was born in one of Morgoth's fortresses (Utumno, I think). I don't remember any of them having tusks, except in Rankin-Bass.

[Remalle]

Resuscitating this.  Anyone seen The Hobbit 2: Electric Boogaloo yet?

Spoiler: That Hobbit (click to show/hide)

I feel like they really could have done it in two movies.  Can you say "cash grab"?  They took out some of my favourite bits in favour of a romantic subplot.  Also, Peter Jackson is clearly not a man who understands convection, and the movie continues in the vein of replacing Bilbo's outthinking people in favour of more action.
On the other hand, Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug is fantastic, Martin Freeman continues to be great, some of the sets are beautiful, and it was paced better overall.  I'd give it one thumb up.

[WillowLuman]

I'd agree. Smaug was by far the best part of this movie.