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[Tiruin]

WoT incoming! Will be busy in the coming days about several hours from now.

Will still be able to post though.


Interesting strategem Ford, however I'd like you to put down quotes to fortify your reasoning, especially ones which pertain to your points.

Firstly, you're evading.

Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."

Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.

I asked you to explain it, then you rebound the question back to me...Hence me asking it. I want to see your reasoning.

We're looking at things from different viewpoints.

Nextly, why would someone claim doctor after a non-NK day? Explain your reasoning on why, please. Enlighten me as to the difference of being in a newbie filled area and its relation to that mistake.

Besides, something catches my eye.

It was my question that made Scientist squirm. Afterwards I didn't think he was scum, but I wasn't surprised that he accumulated votes.

What. You didn't think he was scum, so what did you do afterwards? If I was to use your reasoning: You unvoted both the lynched targets, then revoted at a more opportune time, obviously someone else other than keep it at a tie.

Your reason?

So, +!!scientist!!+ to prevent shenanigans. Sorry, I don't think you're scum. But a nolynch would be worse. I hope you hang out in the deadchat.

Also, Oppose Extension. I'll reverse that if there's suddenly a lot of support for an extension in the next hour, but better safe than sorry.

Irregardless, you use weak foundations for your case and you poke at the rest who voted for scientist using the idea of why they voted for him. So what if my vote was on scientist? A weak case, surely - upheld by my inability to post during then and the lack of an extension. What piques my curiosity is you pointing that out and using scientist's township as your poker.

Why are you preemptively fearing an extension if it would forward your ideas? Doubt, probably, but still answer the question please.

Spoiler: On lynching scum (click to show/hide)

You've been very clear about the fact that lynching scum doesn't make either of us town. Which is great, because it makes you look town (for discrediting yourself) while also discrediting me.

Actually, it is a null tell. Just because someone votes someone else =/= scum/town. People can act as they usually can based on what they believe. My aims were not to discredit anyone, but to see what he would respond and proceed from there.

Why do you see me discrediting you?

Spoiler: Tunneling? (click to show/hide)

And then why are you tunneling me? Sure, if you're town, I'm worth investigating, and if you're scum, I'm worth discrediting. But why are you ignoring everyone else? You've addressed burn_heal once. But otherwise, you're focusing all your attention on the person who is least likely to be scum.

Here, I'd like to see how you're least likely to be scum, as well as going on the defense as if I'm discrediting you. How am I ignoring everyone else?

Also, if you were discredited...err, I'm not actually seeing why you're saying that at all. All I'm doing is poking at your ideas.

Jumpy there.

Spoiler: On votes (click to show/hide)

You only voted ReDeadEr after I unvoted him, creating a tie vote at a point close to the deadline. You wouldn't have expected me to vote him again, would you? It was a great way to distance yourself.

And here is where I see you voting me as an OMGUS, as well as illogical reasoning. We had 18 hours since my post, and a request for an extension. Despite that, why would I depend on you to vote others for my gains? Why would I distance myself when there was no heat on me? And finally, out of the four-way tie:
Onyxjew944: Ironyowl,   

Captain Ford: ReDeadEr,

ReDeadEr: Tiruin

Fraxert: burn_heal,

You comment on my voting pattern, but stick

burn_heal: You're not getting much attention. Why do you think that is?

right in lieu of the day end, before shifting back. With reasoning?

And to add to my query, @ tie, what made you shift your vote Captain Ford?

Umm...is it not obvious? No-lynches are bad for town. I picked ReDeadEr just because he was contributing so very little. I actually thought (at least at one time) that he was the town doctor.

...which only confirms my belief that scum and doctors tend to look alike.

You just voted him, unvoted him after receiving something from him, then twist-voted near day end. Leading me to conclude that you saw something wrong with RDE, and generalize it under 'doing little'. That, or honestly you're scumhunting by tying up votes after we knew of the alignment and not doing so before that.

I believe you're grasping at straws here.

It looks to me like you were just gliding along on your IC status without contributing any scumhunting of your own, or getting involved in any arguments. Heck, even your lynch vote on ReDeadEr sounds like you were giving advice to your scumbuddy.

And the first sentence is an insult to me. I DO NOT USE MY STATUS, NOR WOULD I RIDE ON IT TO AVOID ANYTHING IN GAME. How hollow would my words be if I'm not doing any scumhunting?

That, sir, is discrediting.

Though, you do bring up a reasonable point. The count is at 5:1 now, and I want to see activity at this point.

Fraxert: where are you?


Onyx

Summary:
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...

Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?

So that means you're aiming to claim repentance because of his role? Quick to take back what you've once meant there.


Burn
So where are the results you're talking about? Does the number of scum matter?

Your innocent meter on me and Ford raised because...we voted for RDE, and he turned up Mafia? Could you explain that?

In such a close vote, I gather it would only ever be an extremely bold and rare move to vote your own mafia. A mafia wouldn’t have done it - hence I think you and Captain Ford are innocent. At least, that’s good enough for me at this stage.

So then what?

Supposing IO is the one to be lynched today and turns up town [otherwise, game win], what will you do then? You think me and Ford are innocent....what, 100%?

Your vote has stuck on IronyOwl, what else will you do with the rest?

...You do know there are 2 mafioso, and 1 just got lynched right?

THERE WERE ONLY TWO MAFIOSO?? Oh s**t. There goes my whole bloody theory. I thought there were three! So we’re only looking for one then? Oh dear.

Theory? Enlighten us.

Err, what's wrong with being defensive? I've seen lots of people being defensive this game...actually, all games. People become defensive in their own unique way.

What's wrong with that?

I thought that was a scumtell? The main thing bothering me about IronyOwl at this point is that I have no idea what his thoughts are about other players. And his lurking; however IronyOwl did say he was busy, and there’s nothing you can do about RL business I suppose.


Tiruin, have you played any mafia games with IronyOwl before? If so, do you have any idea how he would behave if he were mafia?

Captain Ford: What’s you’re guilt-meter saying about Onyxjew?


I think I need to go back in my cave and rethink the situation. Sorry about the craziness.

...What does the last sentence bolding mean? Being defensive is a scumtell...err, depending on what is being stated. Being defensive in itself isn't a scumtell.

Next, why are you prodding everyone on their reads on everyone else? Are you too timid to give your own?

Lastly...

I would not take on an IC if I were mafia

-_-

I believe I still haven't reached out to you. In my IC voice, in a real game you should stand up and take a stand. The BM is all about learning Mafia, the win/lose doesn't count here but what you've learned! Just like highschool. This...somehow goes against your idea of vote sticking on Irony.

Alright, what I see from this is you're alluding the ICs to experienced veterans and are afraid to...attack them? Why so? What is gutsy about that? Even those of knowledge fail from time to time, and I believe that no IC in the history of the BMs would ever give up teaching by the trial of fire as well as the trial of water. Meaning: why are you being reluctant?

I've seen a lot of declarative statements regarding you and IO, but where is your own investigation on him? Restate: Why ask their reads instead of pushing your own?

You are you afraid that we'll catch you, bandito?

[IronyOwl]

Onyxjew:

Basically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.

Care to elaborate?

This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?


burn_heal:

I thought that was a scumtell? The main thing bothering me about IronyOwl at this point is that I have no idea what his thoughts are about other players. And his lurking; however IronyOwl did say he was busy, and there’s nothing you can do about RL business I suppose.

Depends on what you mean. Defensiveness is a scumtell because scum tend to be a lot jumpier and on edge than townies. Do you perceive jumpiness or edginess that seems to imply that I'm scum with something to hide and reasons to panic a bit at being questioned, or are you using "defensiveness" more broadly and less usefully in this sense?

I think I need to go back in my cave and rethink the situation. Sorry about the craziness.

Take care. That's what fraxert did D1, and we haven't heard much of him since.

Okay, so now you're trying to convince others and even scumhunt me below, but it looks like you've completely abandoned your original accusations in favor of trying to lynch me on defending against said accusations.

What do you mean by "positive action?"

scumhunting. You have been questioning people - so I suppose that constitutes scumhunting, yes. But I felt like I knew nothing of your views. This seemed scummy to me. That has been rectified in your last post.

Then why didn't you start with questioning my reads and pointing out my inactivity, instead of explaining how I was stabbing everyone in the back and a logical lynch choice for not helping to lynch ReDeadEr?

Whatever happened to those original accusations, by the way?

You are obviously a very good player of this game. Knowing what your thoughts are will be key to us finding out whether you're scum, if that's the case. Even if I die getting this information out of you, it may be worth it in the long run.

This is good town reasoning.

You. Less likely Fraxert, and I consider the other three physically possible but not worth looking into until I get around to reexamining the exact circumstances surrounding ReDeadEr's lynch to see if bussing would have been more feasible than I assume.

This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear from you.

I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.


Ford:

What did you mean by "scum overplayed their hand D3"? You obviously see something very damning about burn_heal. What is it?

The certainty and deliberateness with which he's pushing a bullshit argument. He didn't say "IO's been quiet, too quiet, I suspect him" and then start questioning me or anything reasonable like that. Instead, he:

-Blamed me for scientist's lynch, despite the fact that I never actually said he was scum or voted him; he, meanwhile, was one of the pivotal votes lynching him.

-Implied that, hey, Ford and Tiruin lynched scum, scum FoS'd fraxert, therefore we should kill the other two, end of story.

-Used veeeeeeeeery elaborate, certain storytelling to try to build his case. You could have written an opera with some of the language he was using to describe my nefarious scheming and treacherous plots.

Altogether, it looked very, very much like an attempt to make me look bad and then lynch me, not genuine conviction or suspicion. In other words, scum trying to go for the kill.

IronyOwl: What do you think of Tiruin? Do you think he expected ReDeadEr to end up being lynched?

Rereading...

Hm. He seems ICy and at times rambling wall-of-texty. It's not impossible, but I find it hard to believe he'd give up his juicy Onyx vote to vote his partner at the last second like that. Not realizing there was so little time left and not being able to unvote without looking suspicious is more viable, but still not something I'd count on.

Definitely leaning town.


Fraaaaaaaaaaaaxeeeeeeeeeert!
Hi.

[Onyxjew944]

Tiruin

Onyx

Summary:
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...

Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?

Eeyup. I said it's all of our fault. The acronym tag was a bit of a mistake in the BBCode, my bad. I typed that a little fast and missed a end bracket. I am blaming the lot of us. I- Hang on, my bad. Irony didn't vote +‼scientist‼+. I should start fact-checking more often in these things. Looking back, I did notice this thread got a lot more... serious.

IronyOwl

Onyxjew:

Basically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.

Care to elaborate?

This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?

It seems like both of you are arguing back and forth like water sloshing in a bucket. In less metaphorical terms, nothing is was getting done. I see the situation got itself fixed recently, I was going with a neutral read on account of that sh*tstorm. I didn't want to get wrapped up in that situation. Currently, I'm still on the fence about you. I don't see anything out of the ordinary that jumps out at me as scummy, so I'll leave you be. For now.


Still waiting on Fraxert. Anyone know why he's been off for this long?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin

Onyx

Summary:
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...

Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?

Eeyup. I said it's all of our fault. The acronym tag was a bit of a mistake in the BBCode, my bad. I typed that a little fast and missed a end bracket. I am blaming the lot of us. I- Hang on, my bad. Irony didn't vote +‼scientist‼+. I should start fact-checking more often in these things. Looking back, I did notice this thread got a lot more... serious.

Its been serious from the start, mate.

You sound...

IronyOwl

Onyxjew:

Basically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.

Care to elaborate?

This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?

It seems like both of you are arguing back and forth like water sloshing in a bucket. In less metaphorical terms, nothing is was getting done. I see the situation got itself fixed recently, I was going with a neutral read on account of that sh*tstorm. I didn't want to get wrapped up in that situation. Currently, I'm still on the fence about you. I don't see anything out of the ordinary that jumps out at me as scummy, so I'll leave you be. For now.

...pretty lax with your statements. Aggressively-passive, perhaps?

Newbie-tells by the bucket, is there any reason why you're checking for scummy tells and not prodding for them in the most recent post?

In a normal game, most players would know enough to cover their tracks from the casual observer. Next, mistakes like your mix-and-match could and would cost you your life because these things are serious, especially if you use them in your case and then get your facts wrong.

Why do you keep on rebounding on what you've said before and note that this game just got 'more serious'?

Nerjin: Votecount & Timecount please.

Also, request a call for replacement for fraxert - if any are available. He has been gone for...5 days in relation to my timezone. :/

Still waiting on Fraxert. Anyone know why he's been off for this long?

I'm sure if any of us knew, we'd have said. I can guess - RL, mostly.

[Onyxjew944]

Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Emphasis on

I did notice this thread got a lot more... serious.

After looking back on the first page, and comparing it to day three, the conversation went from examining the size of tumbleweeds and casual chit-chat to consistent verbal assaults and parries. By no means a bad thing, as it is probably the gist of mafia, just interesting to me. Check the logs from day to day, the general mood of the thread seems to lose levity with each passing death. Examples being on day one everyone seemed to treat the game as a joke, while on day three when Captain Ford made a post concerning his joy at surviving the night someone took it as scummy and began an investigation over it.

As for going back on what I said, I don't think I have except in the mix up with Irony's vote. I elaborated on my meaning in several cases, if that was your intent. I'm probably going to continue with that practice as I have a history of rhetoric, 'flowery' speeches, and generally being cryptic at the most inappropriate times. Not exactly the best of traits for a game like this.

I'm checking for scummy-tells rather than questioning everyone in sight because, probably a horrific idea in retrospect, I was focusing on Fraxert. The inactivity was blatant and it piqued my interest. I was reading over the other posts made in the meantime while waiting for a response but not digging into them with more questions.

The answer to your question about if I was being passive-aggressive, probably. I'm usually the diplomancer with the fake accent whose weapons are a puppet executioner and a kingdom ruled by idiots. Old habits die hard.

With all that out of the way, and Fraxert on nigh-permanent hiatus, I'm off to more pathetically amateur scum-hunting. Joy.


Tiruin Out of curiosity, where is the line between acceptably defensive and scummily defensive actually drawn? I've seen some queer situations built out of that maddeningly blurred line.

burn_heal Now that the spat with Irony is somewhat resolved, what do you plan on doing now?

IronyOwl

I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.

Which answers and who were you asking?

Captain Ford You are most likely Town, based entirely on how that vote worked out. I say this not because you voted Scum, but because you voted Scum at a time when it would have been incredibly simple to not vote Scum and still look Town. Yet it would probably be one of the more enjoyable ways to lose if you had bussed ReDeadEr. On an unrelated note, you recently declared some fair points against Tiruin, is there anyone else who has sparked a blip on that scumdar of yours?


As to that Captain Ford fanboy spiel I just unleashed, I probably wouldn't have done something that bold if there were still two scum left, as it would have been disastrous. Question for the ICs, does the blunt stating of my positive opinion of another player when there is only one Mafioso left make either of us look bad, or does that fall under the jurisdiction of:

I believe I still haven't reached out to you. In my IC voice, in a real game you should stand up and take a stand. The BM is all about learning Mafia, the win/lose doesn't count here but what you've learned! Just like highschool. This...somehow goes against your idea of vote sticking on Irony.

If I'm lavishing the board in noob tells, Tiruin, I intend to use that apparent naivete to the fullest.

[Nerjin]

The heated debates seemed to take much more time than they did as each tried to defend their case against the others. Each townfolk seemed assured that another townsfolk was a bandit and yet no consensus was reached by the time noon rolled around. The only one who seemed content with how the case was going was the layabout Fraxert who had taken to napping under the gallows in a somewhat morbid display.
Day 3 will end 1/23/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 43 hours left.

NOTICE: MY INTERNET IS BEING A BIT WONKY RIGHT NOW! DAY MAY END A BIT LATER THAN STATED BUT DO NOT COUNT ON IT!!!!

Also: I will put about an alert of needed replacement on Fraxert.

The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin: Captain Ford,   

Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Fraxert,

[Captain Ford]

Warning: The mother of all WoT incoming. Please fasten your safety belts and secure all pets and small children...

Spoiler: Part 1 (click to show/hide)

Firstly, you're evading.

Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."

Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.

I asked you to explain it, then you rebound the question back to me...Hence me asking it. I want to see your reasoning.

I have explained myself. I explained why I came to those conclusions. I don't think I can be any more clear about my reasoning.

You asked why I concluded that I was a probable night kill target. I'll say it one more time, but it's nothing I haven't said at least twice already.

The answer is that, given a choice of lynches, my choice lynched scum. That's an extremely unlikely move for a bandit to have made. The bandit would have wanted me out of the picture because I'm not likely to be lynched, and that increases his chances of being lynched. In short, because I'm a threat.

It seems like everyone but you understands that.

You then asked, separately, why I concluded that the doctor protected me. Well, if I thought I was going to be night killed, it follows that I would also think that the only way I could have survived is because a doctor protected me.

Does that answer your questions? If not, could you please be more specific in your queries?

Spoiler: Part 2 (click to show/hide)

Nextly, why would someone claim doctor after a non-NK day? Explain your reasoning on why, please. Enlighten me as to the difference of being in a newbie filled area and its relation to that mistake.

Jesus christ, Tiruin. I'm starting to think you don't even read my posts.

Why would someone claim doctor?
- Because it's likely that the person he protected is town.
- Because knowing who's town increases the likelihood of lynching scum.
- Because lynching scum wins the game.

And for the second part. Um...newbies make mistakes more often? Is that really such a hard connection to make? I mean, it's practically the definition of a newbie.

But in any case, you're still reaching for something that isn't there. I mean, you did the same damn thing in your post. Why did you do it?

Spoiler: Part 3 (click to show/hide)

Besides, something catches my eye.

It was my question that made Scientist squirm. Afterwards I didn't think he was scum, but I wasn't surprised that he accumulated votes.

What. You didn't think he was scum, so what did you do afterwards? If I was to use your reasoning: You unvoted both the lynched targets, then revoted at a more opportune time, obviously someone else other than keep it at a tie.

Your reason?

So, +!!scientist!!+ to prevent shenanigans. Sorry, I don't think you're scum. But a nolynch would be worse. I hope you hang out in the deadchat.

Also, Oppose Extension. I'll reverse that if there's suddenly a lot of support for an extension in the next hour, but better safe than sorry.

Irregardless, you use weak foundations for your case and you poke at the rest who voted for scientist using the idea of why they voted for him. So what if my vote was on scientist? A weak case, surely - upheld by my inability to post during then and the lack of an extension. What piques my curiosity is you pointing that out and using scientist's township as your poker.

I did that to prevent a tie vote. Need I remind you that someone actually did try to tie the vote? If I hadn't done that, it would have been a no-lynch, and we would have wasted a day.

Now, on the other hand, you have completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. Throwing this back in my face is ridiculous because you're the one who started it when you told me to "look at how we got here". I did what you told me to, and found your vote on scientist.

Why are you preemptively fearing an extension if it would forward your ideas? Doubt, probably, but still answer the question please.

Did you completely fail to notice where I said "I'll reverse that if there's suddenly a lot of support for an extension in the next hour, but better safe than sorry."

Did you also fail to notice the post where I explained that I'm tired of playing games that drag on for months. Activity had dropped off sharply, so I thought it unlikely that an extension would be used productively.

Did you also completely fail to notice the part where I actually voted for an extension?

Spoiler: Part 4 (click to show/hide)

You've been very clear about the fact that lynching scum doesn't make either of us town. Which is great, because it makes you look town (for discrediting yourself) while also discrediting me.

Actually, it is a null tell. Just because someone votes someone else =/= scum/town. People can act as they usually can based on what they believe. My aims were not to discredit anyone, but to see what he would respond and proceed from there.

...did you just deny trying to discredit ReDeadEr? That's not even what I accused you of.

"Just because someone votes someone else =/= scum/town" - I am not debating this. In fact, I have already agreed with you at the end of this post.

"People can act as they usually can based on what they believe" - I don't understand what this statement was meant to accomplish.

Why do you see me discrediting you?

Are you denying it?

You've been discrediting the result of the last lynch since the day began. I seriously can't believe you're asking me this. It's like we aren't playing the same game.

Here, I'd like to see how you're least likely to be scum, as well as going on the defense as if I'm discrediting you. How am I ignoring everyone else?

Also, if you were discredited...err, I'm not actually seeing why you're saying that at all. All I'm doing is poking at your ideas.

Jumpy there.

So you deny discrediting me, and then you discredit me again right afterwards. Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word. It's not an uncommon thing to do in mafia, so it's really a strange thing for you be raising a fuss about.

Spoiler: Part 5 (click to show/hide)

You only voted ReDeadEr after I unvoted him, creating a tie vote at a point close to the deadline. You wouldn't have expected me to vote him again, would you? It was a great way to distance yourself.

And here is where I see you voting me as an OMGUS, as well as illogical reasoning. We had 18 hours since my post, and a request for an extension. Despite that, why would I depend on you to vote others for my gains? Why would I distance myself when there was no heat on me? And finally, out of the four-way tie:
Onyxjew944: Ironyowl,   

Captain Ford: ReDeadEr,

ReDeadEr: Tiruin

Fraxert: burn_heal,

You comment on my voting pattern, but stick

burn_heal: You're not getting much attention. Why do you think that is?

right in lieu of the day end, before shifting back. With reasoning?

And to add to my query, @ tie, what made you shift your vote Captain Ford?

Umm...is it not obvious? No-lynches are bad for town. I picked ReDeadEr just because he was contributing so very little. I actually thought (at least at one time) that he was the town doctor.

...which only confirms my belief that scum and doctors tend to look alike.

You just voted him, unvoted him after receiving something from him, then twist-voted near day end. Leading me to conclude that you saw something wrong with RDE, and generalize it under 'doing little'. That, or honestly you're scumhunting by tying up votes after we knew of the alignment and not doing so before that.

Oh, for chist's sake.

I accused him of "doing little" on day 1. I did it again on day 2. It was not something that came out of the blue.

So breaking a tie vote is a bad thing now? Lynching scum is a bad thing now? "Twist-voting" certainly sounds like you're accusing me of something scummy.

I already told you why I unvoted him. You even quoted it. I thought he was the fucking doctor. I voted for him again because:
A) Gut reads are awful. I'm not so arrogant as to think mine is reliable.
B) He was contributing the least amount of activity.

I'm also the one who voted for that extension. In the same post where I lynched scum.

And here is where I see you voting me as an OMGUS,

You think it's an OMGUS? I patiently answered your questions for several days before I finally put some pressure on you. And you have the audacity to call it an OMGUS?

Despite that, why would I depend on you to vote others for my gains?

What? This is terrible logic. If you're scum, then my vote didn't gain you anything. If you're not scum, then you actually do depend on other townies to vote with you.

I don't even understand what you're defending against. I didn't accuse you of depending on me. And I'm not sure why you think that would be scummy.

You comment on my voting pattern, but stick

burn_heal: You're not getting much attention. Why do you think that is?

right in lieu of the day end, before shifting back. With reasoning?

Gee, you don't think the statement "Wow, it's getting close to deadline" might indicate that I was surprised by how quickly it came up?

I admit there's no reasoning attached. So I'll give you a reason: I was suspicious of burn_heal. At the time, he didn't seem to be getting much pressure.

I don't care that he didn't answer it. It was a terrible question.

PPE: Oh wait, he did answer it.

Why would I distance myself when there was no heat on me?

I didn't actually accuse you of that.

And I did it in my first BM. And it worked wonders. It's an excellent scum strategy to put pressure on your partner, to throw the town off the scent in the case that one of you gets lynched. It's so obvious that pretending innocence only makes you look dumb.

I believe you're grasping at straws here.

You think I'm the one?

Spoiler: In Conclusion (click to show/hide)

It looks to me like you were just gliding along on your IC status without contributing any scumhunting of your own, or getting involved in any arguments. Heck, even your lynch vote on ReDeadEr sounds like you were giving advice to your scumbuddy.

And the first sentence is an insult to me. I DO NOT USE MY STATUS, NOR WOULD I RIDE ON IT TO AVOID ANYTHING IN GAME. How hollow would my words be if I'm not doing any scumhunting?

That, sir, is discrediting.

Though, you do bring up a reasonable point. The count is at 5:1 now, and I want to see activity at this point.

I said "it looks to me like". I was giving you an opportunity to provide evidence to the contrary. Instead, you yelled at me.

I keep answering your questions, and you keep accusing me of not answering them.

You even defended against things that I didn't accuse you of.

What. The. Fuck.

tl;dr; I gave you a chance to prove me wrong. Instead, you threw up a (really flimsy) smokescreen and yelled at me.

I'm completely flabbergasted. I really don't know what to make of this.

P.S. Open all of the spoilers at once and imagine what this would have looked like if I hadn't put it in spoilers. If that makes your brain hurt, imagine how mine feels.

Oh, and Extend Please. I'm not waiting until the last minute this time.

[Captain Ford]

Did I mention I have a really nasty headache? I may have come across a little more hostile than usual because of it.

[Tiruin]

Don't be jumpy there, I was explaining for you. You seem to be taking it from a skewed viewpoint...Get well soon btw.

@Part 2: That was in my IC voice - addressing any and all variables. I addressed the presence of a Doc as Doc/!Doc, because if I'm not mistaken, the ! before the name is like a...err, something disclaiming the presence of it.

@Part 1: You didn't really explain it. I was asking why you'd insert the idea of a doc straight off. You're skirting the edges of logic there, when I was asking you directly why you'd put the idea that scum would preferably NK you instead of anyone else. Because you put down the lynch vote? And your reason: tie break.

And this line 'But that would mean I was willing to gamble that you people would actually behave the way I wanted you to.' confuses me in that link @ Part 2.

Also, it does seem everyone but me understands it, because it seems that I'm the only one proceeding on your line as everyone else is doing theirs.

What you're evading is this: Why did you think you were going to be night killed? Why bring that prospect up and make something big about it?

@Part 3: ...Well, you're getting part of my point. I did say to look at how we got here.
But you skewed it.

Lastly, why are you going along on possibilities instead of attacking what posts people did? I see a lot of hypothetical areas, which only lead to what we've seen - not you pointing out the essence of how we got there.

And you're still continuing on that tangent.

You hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival? No. His survival depended on himself, and - right, lets settle that regardless of my activity RL or my timezone, that was a weak vote - so what? Its like, you're blaming me for something so inconceivable that it was partly//mostly my fault he's dead - muchly exaggerated when you keep on pointing back to that vote. Let me try to see it your way: You're alluding that one token idea to how we got here. What does scientist have to do with this situation right now?!

Perhaps...I may be reconsidering this too far, but it seems like you're attacking everyone who doesn't think you're smoothly town. You haven't explained much your way, in regard to my question on you > lines along I SURVIVED THE NIGHT KILL!

Utter jubilance. As if you're trying to either draw fire from a threat that does or doesn't exist and making a big thing about it when nothing new surfaced except for the lack of the NK!

You beat around the bush. Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,

Spoiler: Like what I've been asking for (click to show/hide)

'That makes me an obvious target for the last remaining bandit' - Why.
The vote was tied up until I changed my vote to ReDeadEr at the last second (within 30 minutes of day end). If I were scum, that would have been a ludicrously bad move, especially when I could have let it go to a no-lynch.
- why. And why would you have let it gone into a no-lynch anyway, especially?
OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim. - What? So either you're the bandit, or a really headstrong doctor. Since you just inserted a piece of conjunctive reasoning there.

And you end it with "I realize I can't prove I'm not the last bandit." but vehemently insist that you're most likely to be town without explaining why!

To add to it: On my questioning on why the doctor would claim
> 'Um...newbies make mistakes more often? Is that really such a hard connection to make? I mean, it's practically the definition of a newbie.'
How would anyone, in their right minds, claim doctor at a time like this. What are its benefits? What are its consequences?

Some of your parts aim at twisting information which is blatantly obvious. @ Part 4: I made no mention of RDE, specifically in that sentence. I said My aims were not to discredit anyone which pertains to your claim of me discrediting you. Where is it, that I am discrediting you in relation to alignment?

Finally, for brevity of this post, 'You've been discrediting the result of the last lynch since the day began. I seriously can't believe you're asking me this. It's like we aren't playing the same game.'

Opinions without quotes along with an aloof threat. How can I obviously discredit what the mod posted in RED and ITALICS? I can't see what you're getting at at all. Besides, if I'm discrediting RDE's recent flip, don't you think others would've caught onto it right now? Know what I'm talking about, and its mostly not on what is in your five-part thesis against the holistic me.

Spoiler: Lastly (click to show/hide)

   

It looks to me like you were just gliding along on your IC status without contributing any scumhunting of your own, or getting involved in any arguments. Heck, even your lynch vote on ReDeadEr sounds like you were giving advice to your scumbuddy.

    And the first sentence is an insult to me. I DO NOT USE MY STATUS, NOR WOULD I RIDE ON IT TO AVOID ANYTHING IN GAME. How hollow would my words be if I'm not doing any scumhunting?

That, sir, is discrediting.

Though, you do bring up a reasonable point. The count is at 5:1 now, and I want to see activity at this point.

I said "it looks to me like". I was giving you an opportunity to provide evidence to the contrary. Instead, you yelled at me.

I know that you said 'it looks to you like', and that was not yelling (except in the mindset of reading words, technically), but me posting down in easily readable letters of my intention.

{This is what you'd usually expect in a game where every minor detail is picked on between players. Usually, it is best to summarize what you're pointing out, in short concise sentences for the rest to catch on. Mostly, the person you're dueling with will track all of your words anyway. OOC: I appreciate what you did there Ford.

This and the paragraph above this has no relation to our argument.}

Yeah, me doing my IC voice...finally choosing to separate it in case of misconceptions between voices.

[Shakerag]

@Part 2: That was in my IC voice - addressing any and all variables. I addressed the presence of a Doc as Doc/!Doc, because if I'm not mistaken, the ! before the name is like a...err, something disclaiming the presence of it.

[This is why I give IC advice/commentary in brackets.  Makes sure there isn't any confusion.  Also, putting an exclamation mark in front of something negates it, so you'd read that as "Doc/(not)Doc".  Like as in "!=" meaning "not equal".]

[Onyxjew944]

I know that you said 'it looks to you like', and that was not yelling (except in the mindset of reading words, technically), but me posting down in easily readable letters of my intention.

Writing in capitalized letters is the internet way of yelling. It's not a Simple Machine forum thing, it is a widely accepted rule of the internet.

Because THIS IS YELLING AT YOU.

This is getting a bloody point across.

[Nerjin]

Due to several threats on the lives of others and a near pre-lynch murder between Tiruin and Captain Ford the assmbled townsfolk chose to adjourn for a few hours to avoid an un-diplomatic resolve of today's debate. As it stood night had begun to fall by the time every townsfolk had returned from where-ever they had left to to cool down. Fraxert by contrast remained asleep under the tree, seemingly unmoving.

Day 3 will end 1/23/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 25 hours left.


The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin: Captain Ford,   

Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Fraxert,

[Captain Ford]

Don't be jumpy there, I was explaining for you. You seem to be taking it from a skewed viewpoint...Get well soon btw.

I feel much better today. Sorry for all the profanity. My roommate is a bad influence on me.

I'm now horribly confused though. I don't think I was evading anything.

First of all, it looks like you quoted the wrong post here:

Firstly, you're evading.

Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."

Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.

I asked you to explain it, then you rebound the question back to me...Hence me asking it. I want to see your reasoning.

Because that was a response to IronyOwl, not you.

The one where I responded to you was this:

-snip-that post that we keep coming back to-snip-

Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?

Sure. The vote was tied up until I changed my vote to ReDeadEr at the last second (within 30 minutes of day end). If I were scum, that would have been a ludicrously bad move, especially when I could have let it go to a no-lynch.

That makes me an obvious target for the last remaining bandit. Any person who's confirmed town (or nearly so) is one less person who can attract suspicion away from them. The doctor was smart enough to see it the same way.

OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim.

I realize I can't prove I'm not the last bandit. From your point of view, it's possible that I bussed my scumbuddy. But that would mean I was willing to gamble that you people would actually behave the way I wanted you to.
And that's a stupid gamble. Seriously.

And I don't see where I "rebounded the question to you". I didn't direct any questions at you. So I am really, horribly confused. It really does feel like you haven't read anything I've said.

...at this point, I'm beginning to think you never saw that post. Because you only ever quoted my response to IronyOwl.

That might be the source of our confusion. I really have been answering your questions. That's why I hyperlinked them all in that WoT. I really think that every gripe I had in that WoT was legitimate. And I do resent the implication that I'm the one at fault here.

but it seems like you're attacking everyone who doesn't think you're smoothly town

That's an exaggeration. Because you're the only one who fits that criteria. And I only did it because you have been very hard to communicate with.

@Part 1: You didn't really explain it. I was asking why you'd insert the idea of a doc straight off.

...okay...I think I understand what you're asking me now. You're asking me why I didn't put any reasoning for my conclusions in my first post. Is that correct?

That's simple to answer: I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.

Is that what you were asking for?

You're skirting the edges of logic there, when I was asking you directly why you'd put the idea that scum would preferably NK you instead of anyone else. Because you put down the lynch vote? And your reason: tie break.

Oh. Because I was excited.

I see what you're saying. You're worried I posted that to lead the town to a false conclusion. (That's what I thought you were trying to say, actually).

Well, I figured the other players were going to come to the same conclusions I did on their own anyway. I didn't think it would come as a surprise to them. So why should I be half-assed about it? This is a reason to celebrate if there ever was one. If anything, being over the top about it shows that I'm not afraid of attracting attention.

I did think about the way I was going to be perceived before I wrote that. But in the end, I decided I didn't care. I was happy, and I didn't really think it would be at all harmful.

So there's my reasons. Is this what you were looking for?

OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim. - What? So either you're the bandit, or a really headstrong doctor. Since you just inserted a piece of conjunctive reasoning there.

Wait ... "a really headstrong doctor?" wtf?

...

...WTF?!?

That doesn't make any sense. And it most certainly isn't what I said. I can't claim doctor, because I can't protect myself.

You beat around the bush. Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,

I ... I am so tired of this. I have tried so goddamn hard to answer your questions. And you won't even give me a clue about what you're looking for. You just accuse me of dodging and evading. You don't even acknowledge the effort I'm putting in. And I put in a lot.

You hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival?

Yeah. You voted him. That kills people, Tiruin.

You haven't explained much your way, in regard to my question on you > lines along I SURVIVED THE NIGHT KILL!

BULLSHIT.

I have written HUGE posts explaining everything I can think of. It's just not what you were looking for.

If you're not getting the answers you want, it's your fault for asking the wrong questions. I've done everything I can. Everything short of writing out a doctoral thesis explaining every aspect of my decisions to the molecular level.


Tiruin, I don't even know if you're reading my posts. You don't acknowledge them, so I don't know if you missed them, misunderstood them, or if they're not what you wanted. Since you didn't specify, I'm assuming you didn't see them or didn't understand them. I'm not beating around the bush, I'm struggling to figure out what you want me to do. I'm trying to answer your questions, but I'm shooting blind, trying to hit a target only you can see.

Accusing me of being evasive when I'm putting forth all this effort is dishonest and really infuriating. Since it's so pervasive, I'm beginning to think you're doing it on purpose, and you're not really interested in hearing what I have to say.

Everyone: I'm going crazy here. I would really like to hear others weigh in on this, because I'm at a total loss to figure out what Tiruin wants from me.

[IronyOwl]

I'm... a bit lost. Extend for now, I'll see if I can dig into the Ford/Tiruin thing at some point.

[Nerjin]

Whether due to extreme drinking, fatigue, fear, or any other number of reasons each of the townsfolk looked back on the day as seeming to take longer than usual to debate.

Extension accepted!

Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 68 hours left.


The Old Parchment Reads:

Burn_heal: Irony Owl,   

Onyxjew944:

Captain Ford: Tiruin,   

Fraxert: Onyxjew944,   

Tiruin: Captain Ford,   

Ironyowl: Burn_heal

Not Voting: Fraxert,