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[SalmonGod]

society works best if everyone looks out and helps each other

This.  Feeling good about oneself and hoping that you set a standard others will follow, and you will thus benefit from, is just a bonus.

[kaijyuu]

Well... being altruistic, by itself, is a horrible way to go about trying to find a relationship.

However, treating others how you wish to be treated is how everyone should live.  Just to be sure no one gets the two things mixed up.

Well yeah. Gotta realize you're a person as well, and worthy of the same respect you give everyone else.

[MorleyDev]

It just seems to me that it takes more effort to be a dick than to be nice in most situations. You get more long term rewards like finding yourself in social situations that are entertaining, which is always nice. I enjoy getting drunk and going clubbing, if I was a dick to everyone I'd have no friends to go clubbing with and going clubbing alone is boring. People are fun, being reasonably nice to people brings more chances for this fun. Win-win.

Being a dick gets you the short term amusement of being a dick and then a worse situation over all. Of course you can still be a little bit of a dick and still get those long term rewards, or you can be a dick in clever ways that bring you rewards without costing too much. In fact pragmatic dickery when the situation calls for it is arguably the better way to be. Of course judging when the situation calls for it is a trick in and of itself...

[Pnx]

I hate going out of my way to do anything, including doing nice things for people, I only do it because I'd feel worse if I was a huge dickbag all of the time.
You people who enjoy other people's happiness are lucky.

Well it is the entire reason why I developed my legendary (amongst some of my friends at least) sense of humour. I've heard it said that comedians become comedians as a control thing, or as an attention thing, and that may have played a role in why I became a bit of a comedian, but mostly I think it's because being able to make gloomy people blossom into laughter like flowers before a sunrise is a very magical thing to me.

[Graknorke]

I hate going out of my way to do anything, including doing nice things for people, I only do it because I'd feel worse if I was a huge dickbag all of the time.
You people who enjoy other people's happiness are lucky.

Well it is the entire reason why I developed my legendary (amongst some of my friends at least) sense of humour. I've heard it said that comedians become comedians as a control thing, or as an attention thing, and that may have played a role in why I became a bit of a comedian, but mostly I think it's because being able to make gloomy people blossom into laughter like flowers before a sunrise is a very magical thing to me.

I don't need to control anything, I have a sense of guilt to do that.
It's just that I resent taking pretty much any action regarding a person I don't already know/like, because it's either a chore or my good friends guilt and shame come along and remind me how much of a dickbag I am for not having helped someone.

[MorleyDev]

Anyone can punch a random person. doing so without feeling guilty is hard.

Surely the difficult part is in avoiding being punched back or arrested for assault...and then you actually have to go out of your way to punch them. And for no real rewards. Being a dick like that is just stupid. You may be able to get by doing it, but you're going to suffer for it needlessly.

[darkrider2]

Honestly I question whether some people actually have a conscience or not, I could believe that someone who doesn't really think about the consequences of their actions could easily be a dick without really having all those wishy washy feelings hindering them, unlike myself.

And combine that with a compulsion towards immediate external gains and you've basically got my template for the average dick.

I mean, I really doubt anyone goes out of their way to be a dick to total strangers. They just don't know better.

[kaijyuu]

I'd argue much of it is the monkey sphere phenomenon. They're dicks to people they don't know well, but wouldn't be dicks to people they do.

I don't think there are many empathyless individuals nor outright sadists in the world.

[misko27]

I'd argue much of it is the monkey sphere phenomenon. They're dicks to people they don't know well, but wouldn't be dicks to people they do.

I don't think there are many empathyless individuals nor outright sadists in the world.

Now hey, Don't get so damn idealistic. I know over 4, and they're all related to me.

[kaijyuu]

Now hey, Don't get so damn idealistic.

Too fucking bad, I'm Mr. Idealistic

[Solifuge]

When I look at every nice thing I've ever done for someone else, I think the only motivation has been to have something good happen for me in return. It's not something that's a transaction between me and someone else though; I do something nice, and continue to do nice things with the expectation that others will reciprocate when it behooves them. It's a mutualistic relationship I extend to others. If I continually offer kindnesses and give of myself, and someone takes advantage of that without reciprocating when it wouldn't be that hard, or when I really need the help, I recognize that it's not a good thing for me, and tend to gradually disconnect myself from that person.

I don't view that as manipulation at all, but rather a sign of a healthy respect for others, and for yourself.

I rather... detest karmic balance morality. Doing nice things with the expectation of nice things in return is certainly good from a productivist standpoint, where optimization is desired. IMO though, friendships and relationships aren't contracts where you expect things from each other. You help them because you want to help them. A good relationship is an altruistic one, both ways.

Ack, maybe I'm not conveying things well.

I don't do nice things for others because I expect the universe to repay me in kind though some underlying cosmic balance. I know that every good thing I do for anyone else makes things better for them, thus improving their ability to make a positive impact on the world, and thus helping me and the things I have a stake in. Also, I hope to encourage an attitude of helpfulness and reciprocation in those around me, and help them out when I can, in hopes that they'll do the same for me when I need it. Thus, being a nice guy.

On a related note, I don't really consider Romantic Relationships and Friendships separate things. My monkeysphere is inconveniently about the size of a planet, and I can't really construct a hierarchy of who is more or less important to me. I sometimes worry that the relationships I've been in have failed, in part, because the love I show a significant other is much the same as the love I show most people in my daily life. Everyone, even the people I detest, are important to me... I want them to be mentally and physically well, constructive, and contented people. I wonder if that's made my romantic partners feel like they're less important to me or something.

Hmm. Perhaps something similar could play into what we perceive as the Nice Guy phenomenon as well?

[MaximumZero]

Can't say that I get into the whole "I did something nice, now you owe me" or "I'll do something nice in return for something" viewpoints. I mean, yeah, I understand them, but it's kind of a dick way to live. If someone put a condition on being nice to me, I'd probably just turn them down. If you're going to be nice, do it because being nice is...nice.

[EnigmaticHat]

Some people seem to have, like, anti-morality.  They specifically want to act the opposite of whatever the local idea of proper behaviour is.  You can see this especially with trolls and griefers; they see that a system is exploitable and break it down just because they can.  And its like, you're only doing those things because you're not supposed to.  If someone made "spawn camping: the game" or "emotional abuse: the forum" no one would go on, (ok, they would, but only for the novelty value).  Some people really want to be bad.

(this was sort of on topic a few posts ago, it ties into the "are people dicks" derail)

[misko27]

Some people seem to have, like, anti-morality.  They specifically want to act the opposite of whatever the local idea of proper behaviour is.  You can see this especially with trolls and griefers; they see that a system is exploitable and break it down just because they can.  And its like, you're only doing those things because you're not supposed to.  If someone made "spawn camping: the game" or "emotional abuse: the forum" no one would go on, (ok, they would, but only for the novelty value).  Some people really want to be bad.

(this was sort of on topic a few posts ago, it ties into the "are people dicks" derail)

No, not really. People only do that when they can escape punishment.

[kaijyuu]

I don't do nice things for others because I expect the universe to repay me in kind though some underlying cosmic balance. I know that every good thing I do for anyone else makes things better for them, thus improving their ability to make a positive impact on the world, and thus helping me and the things I have a stake in. Also, I hope to encourage an attitude of helpfulness and reciprocation in those around me, and help them out when I can, in hopes that they'll do the same for me when I need it. Thus, being a nice guy.

My beef with this is there are situations where you really can't expect your gesture to result in future Good Stuff, so your justification for being nice (they'll pass it on) doesn't apply. Not too many situations in real life where this is the case (most I can think of involve comforting someone as they die), but throw in human flaws like selfishness and the situations where people are just unlikely to pass it on are that much easier to rationalize away being nice and instead be a dick out of convenience.

On a related note, I don't really consider Romantic Relationships and Friendships separate things. My monkeysphere is inconveniently about the size of a planet, and I can't really construct a hierarchy of who is more or less important to me. I sometimes worry that the relationships I've been in have failed, in part, because the love I show a significant other is much the same as the love I show most people in my daily life. Everyone, even the people I detest, are important to me... I want them to be mentally and physically well, constructive, and contented people. I wonder if that's made my romantic partners feel like they're less important to me or something.

I'm starting to think I'm the same. I like people. A LOT of people. Romance and friendship blur to me, so I end up confused as to what's acceptable with one and not the other. I flirt with pretty much all my friends who are okay with it, and I often wonder if I'm sending different messages than I intend or creeping someone out. For the ones I intend to romance, I wonder if I'm being too "friendly" and not "romantic" enough, too.

Some people seem to have, like, anti-morality.  They specifically want to act the opposite of whatever the local idea of proper behaviour is.  You can see this especially with trolls and griefers; they see that a system is exploitable and break it down just because they can.  And its like, you're only doing those things because you're not supposed to.  If someone made "spawn camping: the game" or "emotional abuse: the forum" no one would go on, (ok, they would, but only for the novelty value).  Some people really want to be bad.

(this was sort of on topic a few posts ago, it ties into the "are people dicks" derail)

Simple rebellion. Very very common with human beings They don't feel the social standards relating to treating others with respect are acceptable (or simply too strict), so they shoot toward the opposite end.