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[freeformschooler]

Here is a link to the post where I asked. At no point did I ever use the word "agree" or "disagree."

False.

A) Believe that you understand the model that I'm describing, but disagree with it.

[MorleyDev]

How to handle a woman? There's a way known by every woman, since the whole rigmarole began. Do I flatter her? Do I threaten or cajole or plead? Do I brood or play the gay romancer? No indeed.
How to handle a woman? Mark me well, I will tell you, sir: The way to handle a woman ls to love her. Simply love her. Merely love her.

[V-Norrec]

You know, the title of this thread interested me, almost enough to make a post, then I saw epic derail about S&M.  All I have to contribute to the conversation at this point is it is a scale, just like the scale for homosexuality that I see brought out at times.  By itself it is neither masculine or feminine, but rather just how some people get their kicks.  I'll see myself out now.

[GlyphGryph]

I do not know if I understand it. I know I understand something, but it may not be an identical model to the one you are trying to convey. My attempts to elicit more information about the model previously (with my list of alternate situations that seemed to fall outside it) was ignored. My request for a restatement of the model was denied.

Since you will clarify, I will spend a while rereading your original posts on the matter in hopes of increasing my confidence level. I'll post again when I've done so. Which probably won't happen for another two hours or so when I get back to the internet. So we can continue this then. (If you've clarified before then, all the better. Clearly spelling out your assumptions)

[Graknorke]

How to handle a woman? There's a way known by every woman, since the whole rigmarole began. Do I flatter her? Do I threaten or cajole or plead? Do I brood or play the gay romancer? No indeed.
How to handle a woman? Mark me well, I will tell you, sir: The way to handle a woman ls to love her. Simply love her. Merely love her.

I would suggest that some sort of interpersonal interaction would be necessary to actually make that love mean something.
Otherwise you're just on your own wallowing in a pit of emotion that you're not sharing with anybody.

[Solifuge]

LordBucket, I think we're encountering an argument about definitions. Allow me to ask you something to help clarify your stance.

When you use the word "Masculine Energy," do you attribute this trait to Males? Do you believe that it is proper for Males act in accordance with "Masculine Energy"? Do you feel that acting in such a way serves a larger purpose for society, culture, or humanity as a whole? Do you feel that Males acting on "Feminine Energy" would be disrupting a greater balance or purpose? The same questions go for "Feminine Energy" and Females.

[LordBucket]

I will spend a while rereading your original posts

Ok. I would suggest this one and this one.

[Solifuge]

LordBucket, I don't feel you've addressed anything I've asked you yet. I think I may be able to help us reach an understanding here, if you can work with me for a second.

[Graknorke]

LordBucket, I don't feel you've addressed anything I've asked you yet. I think I may be able to help us reach an understanding here, if you can work with me for a second.

Set aside "biological male and female" for a moment and look at "masculine and feminine" in the eastern sense of Yin Yang rather than western sense of belching and sports vs pretty pink puppies.

Seems to more-or-less be what you're talking about right?

[Solifuge]

I see where you could get that, but that's not my point, no. I asked those specific questions for a reason.

[LordBucket]

LordBucket, I think we're encountering an argument about definitions.

Very likely.

When you use the word "Masculine Energy," do you attribute this trait to Males?

Indirectly, in the hermetic sense. "As above, so below." These forces that I'm using the words "masculine energy" and "feminine energy" to describe are fundamental forces. Again, most of my examples used inanimate objects because it's easier to describe the relationship that way.

I'm not addressing whether biological males are born with male bodies because sperm and egg were more "attuned" or more "subjected to" either force...or whether souls choose based on preference, or something else entirely. I don't know, and it probably doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion. But regardless of precise causation, I'm suggesting that there is a "tendency" for biological systems to behave in concert with the more fundamental forces. Sort of like how gravity still applies even when you're working with really big, or more complicated systems that don't necessary behave at the macrocosmic scale as simply as "stuff goes towards other stuff."

For example, it would be silly to say that "planes can't fly because gravity would pull them down." Similarly, it would be silly to say that "men only act upon and women are like submissive rocks." Nevertheless, gravity is a force at work in the functioning of a plane, and masculine/feminine are forces at work in the relationship between men and women. It can be overcome...it can manifest in various ways...but the underlying force is still a "building block" of the relationship...and ignoring those basic forces is a very good way of getting a crashed plane...or a crashed relationship.

Do you believe that it is proper for Males act in accordance with "Masculine Energy"?

It's not my intent to make any particular judgments on what is "proper." Only to point out the nature of energy exchange and how and why it occurs or fails to occur.

Do you feel that acting in such a way serves a larger purpose for society, culture, or humanity as a whole?

...going to skip a direct answer to this because I think the "spirit" of what you're asking is more properly answered by the previous and next answers.

Do you feel that Males acting on "Feminine Energy" would be disrupting a greater balance or purpose?
The same questions go for "Feminine Energy" and Females.

...well, it's "very convenient" when masculine and feminine energy act together in unison, balance and harmony. It's "disruptive" if there's "more masculine energy" than feminine, or more feminine than masculine, etc.

You could certainly have a society where the accepted norm was for women to ask men out and men to passively accept. There's flexibility here. But...the ideal case is an equivalent amount of intent being applied to an equivalent amount of receiver of that intent. If there are five guys who all want for a single woman to be loyal to him and him alone...and one woman who wants to sleep with lots of guys...obviously that's an arrangement that can result in "disruption." If there are five guys who want to have lots of sex with lots of women and one woman who wants to stay a virgin all her life...again, that's a situation that can be problematic.

Many of the "disruptions" that this thread was originally posed to discuss are "disruptions" of exactly this sort. If a woman wants a guy to bend her over a couch and fuck her hard...and there's a guy who wants to be "nice" and seek her permission and focus on kindness and sensitivity...that's a situation where there's "not a equivalent amount of intent being applied to an equivalent amount of receiver of that intent." The girl wants to receive something very different than he's offering, and he wants to receive something that she's not interested in giving.

The "nice guy can't get a girl" phenomenon is, in my opinion, largely a problem of fundamental masculine/feminine energy exchange.

[Solifuge]

Lordbucket, though I understand why you would be reluctant to, I would ask you to recognize that you are making a judgement here. You say that "it is most convenient", "natural", or otherwise best when a Male acts in accordance with Yang, and a Female acts in accordance with Yin. That is the ideal, which fulfills the greater order. I'd reassure you that this does not make you wrong, but we can't progress in this discussion until you admit that you have attached an element of right and wrong to these concepts.

At any rate, this stance regarding an ideal "Masculine" and "Feminine" nature presupposes Final Causation, or that cause and effect exists to fulfill a higher purpose or order... in this case, that there is a fundamentally "Proper" or "Improper" way for a Man or Woman to act, and acting outside this runs counter to what is best. You suggest that such actions lead to failed or dissatisfied relationships. Thus, the debate we are having is, at its root, between a stance rooted in this Final Causation, and a stance rooted in Efficient Causation, or the belief that effect strictly follows cause, without the underpinnings of a greater cosmic purpose to be maintained. This sort of relation does not contain "ideal" or "improper" conduct. I would argue, as others here have, that applying this as a Law governing successful romantic relationships (one party always acting on, and the other being acted upon) leads to unhappiness and long-term imbalance... and I can cite personal experience for this.

However, if you completely free Yin and Yang from the ethical concerns of "Acceptable Male Behavior" and "Acceptable Female Behavior", then I think we can agree that any one exchange between two people or objects contains this proactive/reactive element. However, and again as others have said, as the sculptor shapes the clay, so too does the exchange between sculptor and clay change the sculptor, as they learn more about the clay, the shaping process, or the result of their action. Both parties in any exchange affect the other, and are simultaneously affected by them. Maintaining that balance, I would argue, is the true core of a healthy relationship.

[Leafsnail]

These forces that I'm using the words "masculine energy" and "feminine energy" to describe are fundamental forces.

Ugh, my tutor never told me about those.  What kind of distances do these forces tend to act over?  Do they work via an inverse square law?  Are they attractive or repulsive?

[Solifuge]

My Snark-dar is detecting Snarkasm, at high enough concentrations to be toxic to reasoned discussion. Keep a safe emotional distance from the topic at hand, and proceed with caution. :I

But seriously, I'm trying to create a consensus here, so we can get back to talking about boyfriends and girlfriends, and how to acquire them.

[Hiiri]

Are they attractive or repulsive?

Depends on mass of the object.