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[Max White]

You cannot be a vegetarian between meals

I like that one! 
Totally going to use it some time.

[Tellemurius]

the fact i took an long to,e to write mine so far all i care you all ninja'd me 25 times

[LordBucket]

The masculine acts upon, the feminine is acted upon

Are we applying these terms incorrectly?

Which part of we? I'm meaning something very specific by these terms...and something a bit different than what I think probably most westerners would mean by them.

In American society, not at all. It's expected for the man to make the advances.

That would be consistent with the nature of masculine/feminine that I'm referring to.

Again, I gave the example of a sculpter working on stone. Or a painter working on canvass. It is no different. One acts, one becomes. One gives, one receives. One acts upon, one is acted upon. There is a very primal nature of energy exchange being described here, and biological male and female human beings are not exempt from it. It is simply more complicated with human beings because "biological male or female" does not precisely correspond to "100% yin or yang." As human beings, we have a mixed nature, and the ability to choose.

Nevertheless...it should come as no surprise if a biological female happens to act in harmony with nature of "feminine energy."

If you push on a door, you re acting upon the door. You give it energy which it receives and "becomes" by being open. Whether you ask the door nicely or yell at it angrily while you do so is irrelevant. But if you only ask nicely without actually pushing the door isn't going to open. "Being nice" is not sufficient to generate a response in the feminine. You must act upon the door.

If you want a woman to respond to you...similarly, you must act upon her. You can't just "be nice" and expect her to open for you. And it's silly to complain if you "be nice" but don't get a response, yet the next guy to come along "acts mean" but does push open the door, and gets a response.

[Putnam]

The problem we really have is not with nice guys, but with mean ones. How does one define a mean guy/jerk?

[Ogdibus]

I'm biologically male.  My friends and acquaintances describe me as amiable, sweet, and even submissive.  I almost never assert myself, and never actively try to attract anyone.  I still end up attracting quite a few people of both sexes.

[Max White]

I'm biologically male.  My friends and acquaintances describe me as amiable, sweet, and even submissive.  I almost never assert myself, and never actively try to attract anyone.  I still end up attracting quite a few people of both sexes.

That is because contrary to the premise of the entire thread, shy and sweet is the cutest, most attractive thing in the world.
Want to win my heart? Just blush, that is seriously all it takes.

[Neonivek]

Reading everything and how many people here are the "Nice guys" while they do such terrible things... makes me think Nice = Not a terrible person.

Which indeed everyone here is probably "Nice"

Nevertheless...it should come as no surprise if a biological female happens to act in harmony with nature of "feminine energy."

Ohh gosh. Please tell me this isn't the Masculine = Aggressive and Feminine = Passive stuff I am hearing... because I have no idea how I'd go on if I had to deal with this.

If you want a woman to respond to you...similarly, you must act upon her. You can't just "be nice" and expect her to open for you. And it's silly to complain if you "be nice" but don't get a response, yet the next guy to come along "acts mean" but does push open the door, and gets a response

Look women who respond to guys being "Mean" to them tend to have a very serious issue.

As I've said before. Those Jerks and Mean guys tend not to walk up to women, slap them in the face, and go on with their day.

The problem we really have is not with nice guys, but with mean ones. How does one define a mean guy/jerk?

Everyone is as vague as HUMANLY possible with what is a "Nice guy" you expect them to define the exact opposite?

[Max White]

Ohh gosh. Please tell me this isn't the Masculine = Aggressive and Feminine = Passive stuff I am hearing... because I have no idea how I'd go on if I had to deal with this.

I just treat it like self parody, and suddenly it becomes some what entertaining to read.

[LordBucket]

Femenine and Masculine are constructs of culture and not biology.

No. "Masculine" and "feminine" are primal forces that exist on a pre-conscious level. I've given many examples of masculine/feminine relationships that exist in non-biological and non-cultured things. Rocks and canvas, and so forth.

It is a mistake to assume that "man = 100% masculine and woman = 100% feminine." But it is also a mistake to suppose that these fundamental forces magically don't apply just because we happen to be complicated human beings with the capacity to choose.

[Putnam]

What are "Jerks and Mean guys", exactly? How do we define that? Many nice guys tend to identify them as, like I said "guys who aren't always agreeing with their girlfriend"

[Solifuge]

Again, I gave the example of a sculpter working on stone. Or a painter working on canvass. It is no different. One acts, one becomes. One gives, one receives. One acts upon, one is acted upon. There is a very primal nature of energy exchange being described here, and biological male and female human beings are not exempt from it. It is simply more complicated with human beings because "biological male or female" does not precisely correspond to "100% yin or yang." As human beings, we have a mixed nature, and the ability to choose.

LordBucket, I'll reiterate since it seems to have gotten lost in the text storm there; that is a very solid argument for how to get girls (or guys) if you were living in historical China. Coincidentally, many Western cultures share overlap with China in that regard. However, to think that this was a matter of human nature, rather than a matter of working in harmony with your culturally imposed gender roles, would be foolish and short-sighted.

Femininity and Masculinity are just a dance we're taught at an early age. You can choose to buy into the dance, and go through those motions as you live your life... and within the context of that dance, you will be successful. If you've learned a different dance, it doesn't apply, and I'm rather fond of Swing myself.

[Kilroy the Grand]

I'm a very nice guy. But I speak the uncomfortable truth. I say impolite things. I criticize people when they need to be criticized; I think it's bad for someone to see a problem and not tell the people about it. Though my brutal honesty has made people trust me even more, because I'm just not the type who'd talk about people behind their backs. In a similar way, I like girls who are honest, aren't faking orgasms, etc.

I find most of the time, "nice" guys are fake. When people are nice - constantly giving you gifts, praising you, you get skeptical of them. Women tend to deal with them all the time, and they turn out to either be dicks or sissies... my girlfriend was dating a bunch of other guys simultaneously, and she turned down one of them because he was always talking about what a nice guy he was. A lot of the sleaziest people I know are excessively polite to women.

But being one of the nice guys without dates in the past, I think the frustration comes from how you're expected to just waltz up to a woman and ask her out. Because girls won't do that (it's unfeminine), so in school, the bad boys are the only one who make any move at all and trigger a connection. Whereas the nice guys get 'friendzoned' because they take the long tedious approach of being friends first.

Men and women want a relationship. There's nothing bad about asking a girl for a date, and it's something many of us take 5-10 years to figure out.


I did a little experiment once, by politely asking people at McDonald's if I could cut into the line in front of them. When they ask me why, I'd just reply, "I'm hungry." 4 times out of 5 they let me through if it's a short line.

I think the same concept applies to dating. Even if they don't actually want to date the guy, they'd say yes anyway because it's not like they're taken. And when they don't want to date the guy, they still stick to them. My wife once dated a loser for 4 years, simply because she didn't want to switch boyfriends, and broke up with him only after he got shotgun married to someone else. I've dated a loser for over a year, because I couldn't get a good excuse to dump her (eventually just went with a straightforward breakup).

It's not that bad boys are actually any better, but they put themselves in an advantageous position.

Something about this resonates with me, I think you might secretly be a pretty cool guy.

[Putnam]

Again, I gave the example of a sculpter working on stone. Or a painter working on canvass. It is no different. One acts, one becomes. One gives, one receives. One acts upon, one is acted upon. There is a very primal nature of energy exchange being described here, and biological male and female human beings are not exempt from it. It is simply more complicated with human beings because "biological male or female" does not precisely correspond to "100% yin or yang." As human beings, we have a mixed nature, and the ability to choose.

LordBucket, I'll reiterate since it seems to have gotten lost in the text storm there; that is a very solid argument for how to get girls (or guys) if you were living in historical China. Coincidentally, many Western cultures share overlap with China in that regard. However, to think that this was a matter of human nature, rather than a matter of working in harmony with your culturally imposed gender roles, would be foolish and short-sighted.

Femininity and Masculinity are just a dance we're taught at an early age. You can choose to buy into the dance, and go through those motions as you live your life... and within the context of that dance, you will be successful. If you've learned a different dance, it doesn't apply, and I'm rather fond of Swing myself.

The fact that it's a cultural construct doesn't invalidate it entirely. Culture is an extremely powerful thing.

[zehive]

Nice guy syndrome:

'I CAN'T BELIEVE SHE SAID I'M HER FRIEND WHAT A BITCH.'

You aren't a nice guy, you're a malicious asshole.

If 'being a nice guy' is your hook to drag women in then thats your whole problem right there. You aren't being nice, you're being two faced and a liar. I'm sick of seeing people complaining about being a nice guy and being friendzoned by some bitch who said that he's her best friend or some crap. It's got nothing to do with being "a jerk" or anything like that. You just think that because, by nature, everyone thinks everyone else is a total jerk.

Be your goddamned selves, jesus christ. If you're trying to hook partners by acting a certain way then you're never going to get anywhere. Everyone calls me exceptionally nice and good, which I guess is just their objective way of seeing me. I'm just being my self.

[Neonivek]

I think the issue here is that EVERYONE is "The Nice Guy" even the Jerks.

I've long since fell out of the "Nice guy" role because I am blunt and often negative.