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Author Topic: Dishonored :(  (Read 28683 times)

Cthulhu

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #150 on: October 16, 2012, 09:58:57 pm »

Oh my god, this saving system is going to kill me.  I can see you, autosave icon, so why are you not saving?  Why does it send me back to the beginning of the level even when I quicksave, why do I have to go in and manually load my quicksave, and why don't autosaves work at all?

I'm so spoiled by games that autosave.  Getting sent back more than a few minutes in a videogame makes me want to quit.
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Aklyon

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #151 on: October 16, 2012, 10:15:10 pm »

You know theres a quite likely to be a quickload key in the options? Its probably F8 or something else in near the middle of the keyboard but away from the movement keys.
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Peewee

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #152 on: October 16, 2012, 10:22:38 pm »

F5 quicksave
F9 quickload

You would not believe how confused I was when the page refreshed halfway through typing that.

MorleyDev

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #153 on: October 18, 2012, 03:56:40 pm »

So beat the game. Got a low chaos ending, since I didn't start slaughtering people until near the end game and even then, didn't kill a single "target". How you're a better person for utterly breaking and reducing a person to nothing, when flat-out murdering them seems more merciful, but whatever...

Have to say, I love the ending theme. Damn, beating them game and then hearing that feels almost as good as "Last Goodbye" by Poets of the Fall after Max Payne 2...
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hemmingjay

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #154 on: October 18, 2012, 04:10:51 pm »

F5 quicksave
F9 quickload

You would not believe how confused I was when the page refreshed halfway through typing that.

Coffee just sprayed out my nose. Well done good sir!
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #155 on: October 18, 2012, 04:13:13 pm »

The frowny face in the title has influenced my feelings towards Dishonored way more than it really should.
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Silfurdreki

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #156 on: October 18, 2012, 04:31:25 pm »

Just beat it as well. Did everyone see the

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyway, having completed it, I definitely feel that the setting vastly outshines the plot. The plot is utterly generic, while the setting is really cool. I find it a bit odd, to be honest, I mean, if some writer came up with such a great setting, he should have been able to come up with a better plot, right?

If I could rewrite the plot I would have gotten rid of the Outsider and the whole conspirators business and make Corvo do the whole thing on his own initiative. Have someone from the assassin gang get captured a few days after the empress was assassinated and have the spymaster put him in the cell beside you to rile you up. He could teach you blink eventually, after being imprisoned along you for months when he has to concede that it's the only way to avoid execution. You then use blink to escape from prison. The first mission after that would be finding and convincing Piero to help you and make gear for you. The rest of the game would flow basically the same as it does now, undermining the Lord Regent by killing his supporters and so forth. However you could interspace the assassination missions with recon missions, where you find out who your targets are, and supply missions where you steal supplies for Piero so that he can build new gear.

In short, they should just hire me as a writer. :P
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MorleyDev

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #157 on: October 18, 2012, 04:39:22 pm »

The more I think about it, the more I actually kinda like the Outsider. They could of done with some references to him before hand, but I'm a fan of story telling where there is no audience surrogate. I like it when even the player character knows more about the world than I do and so does everybody else in the world. I like that feeling. KoToR 2 did that pretty well, and Dishonored is okay at it.

In the Dishonored setting it is a completely known thing that there are people with magic who are given it by a trickster god known as The Outsider, heck the Overseers even figured out how to shut down the magic. It comes as a complete left-field to the player, but to Corvo? Probably not so much...

One of the things I felt really let Skyrim down was how your character's dialogue was all "Duuuuh I have lived in cave since I was born. When did big war happen?"...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 04:41:08 pm by MorleyDev »
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nenjin

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #158 on: October 18, 2012, 04:42:46 pm »

Quote
I find it a bit odd, to be honest, I mean, if some writer came up with such a great setting, he should have been able to come up with a better plot, right?

Do much pen and paper roleplaying? To me it's easy to build an interesting, evocative setting. You string together cool details and you have a setting It's much harder to design a plot that's engaging and doesn't fall into over use of well-trodden tropes, where people demand a level of logical consistency. Especially hard in an action-driven game where people want bad guys doing bad things so they can be righteously punished.

I dunno though. I don't come down too hard on standard plots. I come down on plots that are so tortured to try and avoid seeming standard that they become stupid, self-serving or nonsensical.

Quote
One of the things I felt really let Skyrim down was how your character's dialogue was all "Duuuuh I have lived in cave since I was born. When did big war happen?"...

On the flipside, those who haven't played a lot of TES or aren't lore-hounds would be mystified by dialog choices, if they were written for the perspective of a player who has played every game.

Kind of like how novels in a series often tiresomely retread stuff, because in part they are written every time with the assumption the reader is new to the series. I'm looking at you, every 40k novel and series ever written.

The GM in a table top RPG would do an aside to inform you of stuff you don't know, so you could make informed dialog statements. Unfortunately, video games do that imperfectly with lore that you read....which still leaves people's responses without context if some players never bother to read lore. Which many don't.
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MorleyDev

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #159 on: October 18, 2012, 04:49:08 pm »

Actually I'm more talking about *ignoring* the players pre-knowledge. You could of played every TES game, or you could of played none of them, but either way simply having characters have dialogue options that refer to the great war without having to specifically ask about it would of, I felt, been so much better. The dialogue written for the characters perspectives, and not the benefits of the player.

Again, take Knights Of The Old Republic 2. Your character knows a damn well lot about the world in that game, and makes a lot of references to their past in the dialogue, but you as a player will have no clue what she's talking about and have to piece it together as you go along. It's very tricky to do well, I'll admit.

As for the Outsider, the game makes it clear he does shit like this a *lot*, and because people are bastards it rarely ends well to the point a military branch of the church was formed to fight people with his powers. And it's just funny for him.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 05:21:00 pm by MorleyDev »
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Pnx

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #160 on: October 18, 2012, 05:52:47 pm »

If I could rewrite the plot I would have gotten rid of the Outsider and the whole conspirators business and make Corvo do the whole thing on his own initiative. Have someone from the assassin gang get captured a few days after the empress was assassinated and have the spymaster put him in the cell beside you to rile you up. He could teach you blink eventually, after being imprisoned along you for months when he has to concede that it's the only way to avoid execution. You then use blink to escape from prison.
Well the only problem I'd have with that is why didn't he just use blink to escape right away? They can blink through walls if they know what's on the other side, so it should be easy enough to blink through a pair of bars and escape. There's also the question of why the assassins would leave their compatriot in jail. Is he some kind of traitor? If so why wouldn't they have killed him to prevent their secrets from leaking out? That kind of rewrite could be done, but you would have to fill in a heck of a lot of plot holes.

The thing that really bothered me about the assassins was that they seemed to basically be just be about getting loads of money. I'd expect an organization like theirs to have some greater agenda, but instead they basically just use their powers to get money through assassinations, that seems to only go far enough to let them lead a subsistence lifestyle. It's not really clear why they're doing all this, there doesn't seem to be any kind of political motivation, they're not building an army of assassins with the money with which to conquer the world, and they don't seem to be exactly living a lavish lifestyle. We never really seem to find out what the deal with the assassins is, and we don't even get any hints that there is one beyond "they like money".
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Aklyon

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #161 on: October 18, 2012, 06:01:20 pm »

Also: If the Outsider is gone, how would the assassin have blink in the first place?
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Ivefan

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #162 on: October 18, 2012, 06:20:07 pm »

They can blink through walls if they know what's on the other side, so it should be easy enough to blink through a pair of bars and escape.
Isn't the "blink" thing more like instant movement? I can't say where i got it from but i understood it as you move the distance between A & B rather than dematerialize and appear at your destination.

I think the outsider fits somehow, but they do not use him for anything but a plot tool for giving the player powers.
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Virtz

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #163 on: October 18, 2012, 06:49:34 pm »

The thing that really bothered me about the assassins was that they seemed to basically be just be about getting loads of money. I'd expect an organization like theirs to have some greater agenda, but instead they basically just use their powers to get money through assassinations, that seems to only go far enough to let them lead a subsistence lifestyle. It's not really clear why they're doing all this, there doesn't seem to be any kind of political motivation, they're not building an army of assassins with the money with which to conquer the world, and they don't seem to be exactly living a lavish lifestyle. We never really seem to find out what the deal with the assassins is, and we don't even get any hints that there is one beyond "they like money".
Well, they seemed to have secured their region of the city for themselves. Like the only thing other than assassins you found there was wild plants and dead city guards killed by the assassins. So maybe they have some ambition regarding independence? I guess that's just speculation though. Maybe using the heart on Daud and the region in general would yield something?
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Silfurdreki

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Re: Dishonored :(
« Reply #164 on: October 18, 2012, 07:04:16 pm »

Quote
I find it a bit odd, to be honest, I mean, if some writer came up with such a great setting, he should have been able to come up with a better plot, right?

Do much pen and paper roleplaying? To me it's easy to build an interesting, evocative setting. You string together cool details and you have a setting It's much harder to design a plot that's engaging and doesn't fall into over use of well-trodden tropes, where people demand a level of logical consistency. Especially hard in an action-driven game where people want bad guys doing bad things so they can be righteously punished.

You might be right there, I just thought that the plot was a bit too predictable at times.

If I could rewrite the plot I would have gotten rid of the Outsider and the whole conspirators business and make Corvo do the whole thing on his own initiative. Have someone from the assassin gang get captured a few days after the empress was assassinated and have the spymaster put him in the cell beside you to rile you up. He could teach you blink eventually, after being imprisoned along you for months when he has to concede that it's the only way to avoid execution. You then use blink to escape from prison.
Well the only problem I'd have with that is why didn't he just use blink to escape right away? They can blink through walls if they know what's on the other side, so it should be easy enough to blink through a pair of bars and escape. There's also the question of why the assassins would leave their compatriot in jail. Is he some kind of traitor? If so why wouldn't they have killed him to prevent their secrets from leaking out? That kind of rewrite could be done, but you would have to fill in a heck of a lot of plot holes.

Yes, naturally it would have to be thought over bit more, that's just something I made up in 10 minutes or so. My main point is that I don't really like the whole conspirators thing. That, coupled with the fact that you are a mute protagonist makes Corvo feel like a total puppet. Until the last two missions, he never does something on his own initiative, he's always ordered around by someone else and doesn't seem to question the agenda of the guys he just met a few days ago at any point.

I also agree about the assassins. I thought they would have some kind of agenda, when you sneak around their base they have a bit of a secret ninja monk clan kinda air about them, with entrance tests and an almost revering respect for Daud.

Also: If the Outsider is gone, how would the assassin have blink in the first place?

Sorry, I should have been more clear on that, I don't mind the Outsider as a concept, I just dislike that he's some dude that speaks to you directly and choses you for some task. The plot doesn't come across of as the sort of task that would need a chosen one from some godlike entity to fix it. For me Chosen Ones are for saving the world, or at the least humanity, we're just saving an empress, and it's our job at that. The Outsider as a concept is actually quite needed by the game, not only because of the supernatural powers, but he's necessary for the Abbey of the Everyman (Overseer church) to have a reason for existing. As far as I can tell, they don't really worship anything, they're just anti-Outsider. And with the way the Outsider is, I think they're actually right about what they do, at least in principle. That they have become corrupt and zealous in their task is another matter.
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