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[Nabic]

Nabic Let's say that at some point there are little leads about who the scum is, and you happen to have a role with evidence to back it up. Would you role claim to help out the town even though marking yourself as a NK target?

If I my role has a chance of finding scum at night (such as Cop), I wouldn't claim unless I knew there was a doctor to protect me from the imminent NK.

ShoesandHats, why are you avoiding pressuring anyone with a vote during RVS? Only scum would want to avoid RVS. Less work on their part means less attention on them.

[Mr.Zero]

Shoesandhats
So you would define aggressive as suspicious, while it is one of the common town tells? Doesn't that mean that you would probably vote for aggressive townie, while the scum just keep a semi-passive stance just to get rid of the active players while keeping a low profile yourself?

Also the good player. It is widely known that Jim besides being a massive scumbag (Not scum), is a very good player, does that make him more suspicious?

I still find your common definition of suspicious rather vague, please define more.

@nabic
You just said that you would role claim if you knew that there was a doctor, but what would you do to back-up that claim? What if scum didn't NK you, just to raise suspicion against you to get you on the chopping block?

Cause we aren't exactly waiting to get spoon fed fake information.

[Mr.Zero]

ehh no idea why there is a huge block of empty space there.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: Is a scummy-acting town better off dead?

Hmm.  In a matter of speaking, yes.  The town's power, predominantly, is in the form of the lynch.  That is what we use to eliminate the scum.  So a town player who is acting very scummy will basically cause the town to waste one usage of that power, and cause the scumteam to be one step closer to victory.  Ideally, a town-aligned vigilante will kill off a "scummy townie" during the night, so that that player isn't mislynched the next day.  However, in a game lacking town-aligned kills, there's little you can do about a scummy townie.  Best bet would be to get an inspect off on them to be sure, and then use that info to find the actual scum. 

[Advanced lesson: Sometimes SKs will try to masquerade as a town vig by killing off the scummy-but-likely-town players.]

@Jim Groovester [May I call you Jim?]

The reason they would believe it is that hot-heads prevail. People are lazy creatures. Even if they manage to avoid the trap it would always be in the backround of their mind whispering its siren's song.

Do you feel you also act this way?  Does everyone?

[It's my personal belief that while we tell newbies to focus on finding one scum at a time and to not try and "figure out" the entire scumteam, I think many players do so anyway.  Same deal with trying to analyze who got NKd and why.  However, it seems to be my memory that most times I see people calling out the whole scumteam, whether in-game or in deadchat, they're almost always wrong anyway.  This is true even for non-beginners.]

Arithmetic is for computers.

Fine, I'll ask you for a proof next time.  Also, hypothetically, if you were an IC in a beginner's game and a cop, how would you go about picking your inspect targets? 

I am reasonably certain that people would believe it if it happened.

[I seriously doubt it.  As a scum about to be lynched, it wouldn't be of any benefit to your wincon, no matter how you look at it, to "out" your partner.  Because ... now the town knows who all the scum are, and could just lynch your buddy the next day.  Bam, town win.  Conversely, "outing" your actual partner under the thought that no one will think he's actually scum then won't be effective either.  Everyone will just discard the information you shared, when you flip scum, as WIFOM.]

Nabic Let's say that at some point there are little leads about who the scum is, and you happen to have a role with evidence to back it up. Would you role claim to help out the town even though marking yourself as a NK target?

If I my role has a chance of finding scum at night (such as Cop), I wouldn't claim unless I knew there was a doctor to protect me from the imminent NK.

[My general rule of thumb is to claim after one scum inspect, or (possibly, somtimes) two town inspects.  This can vary as circumstances will, and can vary by the size of the game.  Yes, you are an immediate NK target when you claim cop, but the info you give to the rest of the town can win the game for you.  If you die without sharing that information ... ]


zombie urist: [If it isn't too much trouble, can you post who isn't voting with each votecount?  It's a handy reference that I like to have.]


ShoesandHats: It's 3p LYLO and you're scum.  No powerroles have been revealed yet.  You don't feel that you have a terribly good read on how the other two players are going to vote.  Do you fakeclaim?  If so, cop or doc?

Mr.Zero: If you could choose one player, right now, to lose thier vote for the rest of the game, who would it be and why?

[Mr.Zero]

@Shakerag oh jeez, that's a hard one. Uff it's random but i would most probably choose Jim. Cause in the past BM's that I've red, i have noticed that he likes to bully newbies. With that gone he would be less of a threat to town or scum depending on his alignment.

[xny]

Shoesandhats Please define the suspicious player more. Is it the aggressive one? The passive one? The lurker? Maybe the good player?

Any or all of the above. I used suspicious as a general term.

xny
Say that you're scum. Your partner has gotten himself into a bit of trouble by slipping up a bit on a question mid-game. Do you bandwagon him, do you remain passive, or do you support him?

Depends on the severity of the mistake. Did he say something that makes him almost entirely like scum? If so, I may start the bandwagon myself. I would not really ever directly support someone, but if it's something more quiet I might not take a stand.

@Shakerag oh jeez, that's a hard one. Uff it's random but i would most probably choose Jim. Cause in the past BM's that I've red, i have noticed that he likes to bully newbies. With that gone he would be less of a threat to town or scum depending on his alignment.

You want him to be less of a threat to scum?

@Everyone who isn't already: When respond to a question, could you possibly quote the question? Makes this much easier to read.

[Mr.Zero]

you want him to be less of a threat to scum?

I think you haven't red my entire answer, Cause your question doesn't seem to reflect this.

@Shakerag oh jeez, that's a hard one. Uff it's random but i would most probably choose Jim. Cause in the past BM's that I've red, i have noticed that he likes to bully newbies. With that gone he would be less of a threat to town or scum depending on his alignment.

'
bolded the important part.

Now then

Xny You make very poor attempts at creating good questions, are you even trying to scum hunt?

[xny]

you want him to be less of a threat to scum?

I think you haven't red my entire answer, Cause your question doesn't seem to reflect this.

@Shakerag oh jeez, that's a hard one. Uff it's random but i would most probably choose Jim. Cause in the past BM's that I've red, i have noticed that he likes to bully newbies. With that gone he would be less of a threat to town or scum depending on his alignment.

'
bolded the important part.

Now then

Xny You make very poor attempts at creating good questions, are you even trying to scum hunt?

I don't see how what you bolded changes my point. From what I see, it is as if you are saying "I would get rid of Jim because he puts pressure on town and scum." Is this wrong?

You want to show some examples of bad questions that get me no useful information against scum?

[Mr.Zero]

I don't see how what you bolded changes my point. From what I see, it is as if you are saying "I would get rid of Jim because he puts pressure on town and scum." Is this wrong?

PArtly, the point is that he has generally a stronger presence than the majority of the players and frankly i have no idea whether he is town or scum. Perhaps this mentality has risen from reading other mafia's, but i could as well call out other players. The problem is that i have no knowledge of anything they have done in the past, while i did read a lot about Jim's actions. Thus my random vote is straying towards Jim cause i have some vague knowledge of him as opposed to random players.

It's not that i hold a grudge against Jim cause i don't, i have no reason to have it cause this is the first time i literally play with him. But isn't it logical (If i indeed did have this role, which i do not have cause it does not exist in the Mafia), that you'd go for the player which you know more about as opposed to a random player which actions may be unknown?

You want to show some examples of bad questions that get me no useful information against scum?

Sure why not. But wait... Then we stumble upon something. You yourself didn't ask many questions, You prefer to take the easy way by jumping on questions of others. I'm not saying it's bad, but you haven't been scum hunting yourself.  That's the easy way don't you think? But lets continue..

How do you decide whether or not someone appears town?

Nabic asked, you jumped on it.

what do you hope to gain from these three questions?

Odd question, questioning why he is asking questions? I believe it's to gain knowledge, the thing that spins this game.

Is this a solid rule? Do you think they ever should attract attention?

Shoes asks kingfisher, you jump again on the question.

What makes you think it will happen again? Are you not confident in yourself?

I ask something to kingfisher, you jump on it again.

Then besides that we got you answering our questions, which is not bad. But it looks but with the question -band wagoning combined. It seems that you are choosing the lazy way, cause why hunt when one can bandwagon other people?

to finish it off, I have found a grand total of 2 self-made questions which indicate you searching yourself for scum. Maybe i have missed some, cause of bad underlining.

[ShoesandHats]

ShoesandHats: It's 3p LYLO and you're scum.  No powerroles have been revealed yet.  You don't feel that you have a terribly good read on how the other two players are going to vote.  Do you fakeclaim?  If so, cop or doc?

At that point, I think I probably would fakeclaim cop. After all, if they think I have a 50/50 chance of identifying scum, could they risk it? Probably. But it would at least give me a chance.

Shoesandhats
So you would define aggressive as suspicious, while it is one of the common town tells? Doesn't that mean that you would probably vote for aggressive townie, while the scum just keep a semi-passive stance just to get rid of the active players while keeping a low profile yourself?

Also the good player. It is widely known that Jim besides being a massive scumbag (Not scum), is a very good player, does that make him more suspicious?

I still find your common definition of suspicious rather vague, please define more.

I figured that if you included those players in the list, you yourself would define that as suspicious behavior. I guess not. Being aggressive is a common town attribute, yes, but if a player is being excessively aggressive, it could very well be a (rather strange) scumtell. While being a good and experienced player yourself is not a scumtell, it is best to be wary of such players, because if they do turn out to be scum, they can really screw the town over.

[xny]

You want to show some examples of bad questions that get me no useful information against scum?

Sure why not. But wait... Then we stumble upon something. You yourself didn't ask many questions, You prefer to take the easy way by jumping on questions of others. I'm not saying it's bad, but you haven't been scum hunting yourself.  That's the easy way don't you think? But lets continue..

Jumping on questions of others? I'm jumping on answers of others. I want to know more, so I ask more. Even if it was 'the easy way', I still find it the most informative way. Why should I not do what I think is best?

to finish it off, I have found a grand total of 2 self-made questions which indicate you searching yourself for scum. Maybe i have missed some, cause of bad underlining.

Nobody told me to ask these questions, nobody made me, these are my own questions, working with other answers.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you here.. but no, not really. Thinking it through, why would someone decide to out their partner, ever? It's simply Wifom and over with. Do you believe everything you hear without even thinking about it? Do you happen to be thinking by yourself right now?

@Mr.Zero: ERRR WRONG, 1112. Anyway, that has happened twice now. I'll try harder with a stronger case at the start. And trust me, it will happen in this mafia. And I'll be innocent again.

What makes you think it will happen again? Are you not confident in yourself?
Also..

@Shoes: The other dude. Mafia do not like to attract attention to themselves.

Is this a solid rule? Do you think they ever should attract attention?

Do you feel it's more painful for town when the cop or the doctor is roleblocked? Why?

Obviously, it is. But it's just a minor setback if town manages to track down scum.

Shakerag: Is a scummy-acting town better off dead?

@Jim Groovester [May I call you Jim?]

The reason they would believe it is that hot-heads prevail. People are lazy creatures. Even if they manage to avoid the trap it would always be in the backround of their mind whispering its siren's song.

Do you feel you also act this way?  Does everyone?

There's at least six of my own questions right there. Unless I'm also counting wrong, that's just about how many you have yourself. Not only that, but...

Shoesandhats Please define the suspicious player more. Is it the aggressive one? The passive one? The lurker? Maybe the good player?

You had 'no part' in that question, but then you 'jump in' on it yourself, as I've been doing. Are you in the wrong here?

Also, I find this funny:

what do you hope to gain from these three questions?

Odd question, questioning why he is asking questions? I believe it's to gain knowledge, the thing that spins this game.

I'll respond to the first part of your post when I decipher what it means.

[Nerjin]

So Mr. Zero

I don't see how what you bolded changes my point. From what I see, it is as if you are saying "I would get rid of Jim because he puts pressure on town and scum." Is this wrong?

PArtly, the point is that he has generally a stronger presence than the majority of the players and frankly i have no idea whether he is town or scum. Perhaps this mentality has risen from reading other mafia's, but i could as well call out other players. The problem is that i have no knowledge of anything they have done in the past, while i did read a lot about Jim's actions. Thus my random vote is straying towards Jim cause i have some vague knowledge of him as opposed to random players.

It's not that i hold a grudge against Jim cause i don't, i have no reason to have it cause this is the first time i literally play with him. But isn't it logical (If i indeed did have this role, which i do not have cause it does not exist in the Mafia), that you'd go for the player which you know more about as opposed to a random player which actions may be unknown?

So instead of searching for hints of scumminess in others you will stick with Jim simply because he has presence and you know him? To answer your question: Yes it is more logical. BUT you don't know Jim in this game. You know Jim from the other games. Learn more of others in this game my friend, before you vote Jim from other games. They have little bearing right now.

You want to show some examples of bad questions that get me no useful information against scum?

Sure why not. But wait... Then we stumble upon something. You yourself didn't ask many questions, You prefer to take the easy way by jumping on questions of others. I'm not saying it's bad, but you haven't been scum hunting yourself.  That's the easy way don't you think? But lets continue..

How do you decide whether or not someone appears town?

Nabic asked, you jumped on it.

what do you hope to gain from these three questions?

Odd question, questioning why he is asking questions? I believe it's to gain knowledge, the thing that spins this game.

Is this a solid rule? Do you think they ever should attract attention?

Shoes asks kingfisher, you jump again on the question.

What makes you think it will happen again? Are you not confident in yourself?

I ask something to kingfisher, you jump on it again.

Then besides that we got you answering our questions, which is not bad. But it looks but with the question -band wagoning combined. It seems that you are choosing the lazy way, cause why hunt when one can bandwagon other people?

to finish it off, I have found a grand total of 2 self-made questions which indicate you searching yourself for scum. Maybe i have missed some, cause of bad underlining.

Read the forum friend. xny has been posting frequently and asking questions applying pressure and all that other good stuff. This isn't a scum-tell. It's not a bad thing to pressure for more information. You also ask why he's asking questions. You are doing the same thing. Maybe you should examine the irony here.

This last part just plain confused me though I'll requote it here [it's from the same post]

...  I have found a grand total of 2 self-made questions which indicate you searching yourself for scum. Maybe i have missed some, cause of bad underlining.

What... What do you mean by searching himself for scum? Please explain what you mean by that.

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

Nerjin:	Captain Ford
ShoesandHats:	Nabic	Shakerag
Kingfisher1112:
Captain Ford:
Mr.Zero:	xny	Nerjin
Nabic:	Jim Groovester
xny:
Jim Groovester:
Shakerag:

Not voting: ShoesandHats, Kingfisher1112, Mr.Zero

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 1 will end Wednesday, October 17th at ~9:00 P.M. PST.
Experimental table based votecount.

zombie urist: [If it isn't too much trouble, can you post who isn't voting with each votecount?  It's a handy reference that I like to have.]

Ok.

[Jim Groovester]

Extend, been busy with school.

[Mr.Zero]

Extend little go on now.