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[Kumis]

I've only had limited experience breeding dogs/war dogs, but have to admit I've been less than impressed so far. Are they in need of some love or is this grudge of mine born of noobishness?

You can breed them to be tougher, stronger and bigger. Even then, they do not replace the military. No time in human history have dogs successfully replaced a functioning military. The dogs are there to stave off wild animals, detect ambushers and take hits for the Dwarves. That is to say they're not without worth - bites and shakes ignore armour completely, and dogs are more than capable of mobbing enemies (15 dogs on their own took down 3 ogres).
And with controlled killing/assigning, you can make Dwarves not care about anything anymore.

You forgot that War Dogs, in Rome Total War, also look really awesome. Even if horribly inefficient, and the subject of a bunch of fan outrage that the simple option exists to make an army entirely out of War Dogs (and their handlers).

Not as bad as the anti-infantry horror known as War Dogs from Command&Conquer:Red Alert!
But they cost twice as much as an infantry unit (And died in one or two hits) for a reason.
[/quote]

Heh, I remember the manual:
"Weapon: Sharp teeth."

[BoogieMan]

I agree which is why the current version not allowing your Civs to start with anything but basic animals makes me sad. I loved finding the ones with Grizzly/Polar Bears.

[knutor]

Half the thievery races can be removed from advanced world generation, by reducing nonmountain and mountain caves to 0.  This removes Kobolds, from the worldgen. 

I'm now into a mounted siege, but a few burgles before this dark vile force arived, I lost about half a dozen mastercrafts, to something...  All entrances had war dogs.  All hunters had hunting dogs.  One hunter had observe lv2, the 9 other hunters had decent focus, but their observe skill didn't improve whatsoever..  Upon listing dorfs by skills, observe, was set to 0xp, for all but that lv2.  Roughly 75-100 hunted corpses have been brought back.  Not a single Hunt, yielded an Observation improvement, not one xp. 

I witness and can replicate this complaint comment. 

[gbrngfol]

@Spacecat I'll post the raws for my War Rabbits as soon as I can mod them so they have a layer of steel over their skin.

[uber pye]

dogs are good for a distraction, so your military dwarves can handle the killing

[Joben]

They're gigantic for dogs, which still makes them much smaller than goblins. Also, the goblin probably had military skills. Size+skills>numbers when the numbers side only has one more.

I don't know what breed the game represents (poodles judging by their performance ), but imagine stripping naked and fistfighting two "gigantic" Rottweilers!

Let me first imagine that I am a trained goblin soldier who grew up in a world like Medieval Europe, but more war-torn and full of monsters, specifically in tundras, caverns, and/or evil areas, the deadliest areas in the world.

Dogs are okay against smaller wild animals, like badgers. And that was a normal dog, on his own. The problem is, large numbers of dogs does not make them able to kill things large times their size. You need bigger numbers, enough that the dogs latch on faster than they can be shaken off, so that the enemy passes out from exhaustion.

I sorta side with Stubborn, something seems a bit off about the way the combat model. I suspect it favors size more than anything. So despite the  fact that IRL large dogs are rather hard for unarmed humans to fight effectively a little DF goblin can casually one shot them with a single punch.

Also side note, I estimate that DF dogs are roughly in the size class of labrador retrievers.

But yes there is another quirk that can make a dog pack really work. But it needs to be a pack. Say at least 4 per target. (arguably reasonable, that is how dogs/wolves hunt larger prey IRL after all)

Heck ~5 weasels can take down a bull moose. I was considering making a thread about this once because it seemed so weird. Their teeth can't even break it's skin, but it will quickly get exhausted and faint for no obvious reason.

They have trouble actually killing it though because of the AI bug where they keep going for the head even if they can't break the skull. Small biting animals should really go for the throat...

[gbrngfol]

They have trouble actually killing it though because of the AI bug where they keep going for the head even if they can't break the skull. Small biting animals should really go for the throat...

Yeah even with modding rabbits can't do much.

[gbrngfol]

Okay double post but I've successfully made steel rabbits. Strangely it doesn't seem to make them any tougher. I'll post the raws here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:RABBIT]
   [DESCRIPTION:A small lagomorph with long ears.  It has powerful hind legs which it uses to swiftly avoid predators.  It can be found anywhere from forests to deserts.]
   [NAME:rabbit:rabbits:rabbit]
   [CHILD:1][GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:bunny:bunnies]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'r'][COLOR:6:0:0]
   [PETVALUE:3][PET][COMMON_DOMESTIC][TRAINABLE]
   [NATURAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:4]
   [NO_WINTER][BENIGN][MEANDERER]
   [PREFSTRING:ears]
   [PREFSTRING:ability to burrow]
   [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4TOES_FQ_REG:5TOES_RQ_REG:MOUTH:TONGUE:RODENT_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
   [BODYGLOSS:PAW]
   [GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
      [SELECT_TISSUE:INORGANIC:STEEL]
         [INSULATION:200]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:INORGANIC:STEEL:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:STEEL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL:FRONT]
   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
    [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
   [TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:50]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:0:250]
   [BODY_SIZE:2:0:500]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [MAXAGE:10:15]
   [ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
   [ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:STANCE:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:NAIL]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [DIURNAL]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [MUNDANE]
   [CASTE:FEMALE]
      [CASTE_NAME:doe rabbit:doe rabbits:doe rabbit]
      [FEMALE]
   [CASTE:MALE]
      [CASTE_NAME:buck rabbit:buck rabbits:buck rabbit]
      [MALE]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
   [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BLACK:1:BROWN:1:WHITE:1:GRAY:1:LIGHT_BROWN:1:DARK_BROWN:1:TAN:1:AUBURN:1:CHESTNUT:1:SLATE_GRAY:1:CREAM:1:CINNAMON:1:BUFF:1:BEIGE:1:CHOCOLATE:1:CHARCOAL:1:ASH_GRAY:1:RUSSET:1:IVORY:1:FLAX:1:PUMPKIN:1:GOLD:1:GOLDEN_YELLOW:1:GOLDENROD:1:COPPER:1:SAFFRON:1:AMBER:1:MAHOGANY:1:OCHRE:1:PALE_BROWN:1:RAW_UMBER:1:BURNT_SIENNA:1:BURNT_UMBER:1:SEPIA:1:DARK_TAN:1:PALE_CHESTNUT:1:DARK_CHESTNUT:1:TAUPE_PALE:1:TAUPE_DARK:1:TAUPE_SANDY:1:TAUPE_GRAY:1:TAUPE_MEDIUM:1:ECRU:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
   [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1:BURNT_UMBER:1:CINNAMON:1:COPPER:1:DARK_BROWN:1:DARK_PEACH:1:DARK_TAN:1:ECRU:1:PALE_BROWN:1:PALE_CHESTNUT:1:PALE_PINK:1:PEACH:1:PINK:1:RAW_UMBER:1:SEPIA:1:TAN:1:TAUPE_PALE:1:TAUPE_SANDY:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BLACK:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

[Berossus]

Mandrills and Gibbons.
Madrills just because, you know, mandrills, and gibbons seem to be the felines amongst the the simians in terms of breeding.
And War jaguars. They are cats, breed like hell, can be war-trained and eaten.

If only they mandrills could ride them into battle...

[StubbornAlcoholic]

I bought a Leopard from the Elves and trained it, but the poor thing just languished in it's room for years with nothing to mate with (a situation I can sympathise with all too well )

Elves never seem to bring the same animals twice, you can't request cool animals from the Dwarves and the Humans don't seem to keen on selling "pets" anyway. Add to that the irritating propensity truly vicious wild animals have of never spawning and sadly my plan to get sharks with frickin' laser beams war bears has been abandoned for the time being.

I'm now settling for a ludicrous excess of traps and deadly pits, but they lack teeth

[gbrngfol]

I'm now settling for a ludicrous excess of traps and deadly pits, but they lack teeth

Fill the traps with spiked balls and they'll fill with teeth quite quickly.

[Loud Whispers]

Half the thievery races can be removed from advanced world generation, by reducing nonmountain and mountain caves to 0.  This removes Kobolds, from the worldgen. 

WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? D:

[StubbornAlcoholic]

I just caught a bunch of Giant Keas trying to nick my stuff. Unfortunately I can't seem to tame them past "Trained", they keep reverting back to being savage wild menaces.

Is there any way to actually fully tame them and make use of them? I quite like the idea of an army of giant kleptomaniac parrots

[Cozmopolit]

I just caught a bunch of Giant Keas trying to nick my stuff. Unfortunately I can't seem to tame them past "Trained", they keep reverting back to being savage wild menaces.

Is there any way to actually fully tame them and make use of them? I quite like the idea of an army of giant kleptomaniac parrots

- First training step happens when they are in the cage, by assigning the trainer.
- Then, move animal to a Pasture that is also marked to be used for animal training. Further training will happen there (when your animal trainer finds time)
- Captured animals will never become tame, they will only reach various levels of training quality. Animal kids/cubs will be born on the same training level as their mother and can be fully tamed (as kids, before they grow up). Their offspring will be fully tame.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Animal_training

[Ubiq]

Okay double post but I've successfully made steel rabbits. Strangely it doesn't seem to make them any tougher.

Add [NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:-] and change the dash to at least six (Proficient Biter) or more. Natural Skill: Dodging will also make them harder to hit.