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[NCommander]

So, in my first fort in ages (Ancientmines), I've dealt with a group of massive migrations (I had over 100 dwarfs before the end of year 2, sitting at 172 now at year 4 with 78 children). Sometime in 125 (starting year) one of my dwarfs decided to throw a party. That party still been going four years later, and due to an aquifer and two massive seiges, I've been pretty much stuck (the aquifer took a *very* long time to break through, I only got through it six months ago ingame). As I started digging magma forges above the magma sea, I noticed that I had no peasents, but a lot of Clerks. A closer look with Therapist reviewed that almost all my dwarfs have tons of social skills, and some have even hit legendary.

A second look revealed that all the dwarfs with legendary social skills were either incredibly agile, had great focus/etc/etc.

I realized that social skills seriously buff the hell out of specific attributes, and if you have a large party, they go up very, very, very fast.

Here's the list of what gains what: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Attributes#Skills_By_Soul_Attribute

(mentally: I'm guessing Dwarven Comedy is slapstick).

So here's my new military training procedure; allow most of your fort to be idle (easy given large migration waves), and let them build social skills out the ying-yang. This gets most of the negative attributes from red to gone or even green. Then I'll use my usual pump operator/swimming training to boost them to the cap, then begin military training.

I usually use live training to build weapon/armor/shield user skills, but I'm curious if I might have success with traditional training. Other posts note that Student/Teacher are the important attributes, but Organizer is used to, well, organize training sessions. Training organizer is easy; make your milita commander/captains manager, issue a ton of jobs, wait until they approve them, then cancel them out. Presto, organizer gets trained to legendary pretty fast (if tedious). I suspect with legendary organizer, training sessions will happen faster, causing dwarfs to build teacher/student relatively quickly (and avoid having to specifically embark with a dwarf with those skills; which I didn't).

Any thoughts/ideas?

[They Got Leader]

It is a very good idea, yes, but you are also potentially setting your fortress up for a massive tantrum spiral. Do be aware that social skills are tied to being social and making friends. If you happen to lose any, the effects will be instant and devastating. However, because they have good social skills, most should be able to cope.

[CaptainLambcake]

legendary booze drinker

[GreatWyrmGold]

legendary booze drinker

Also known as a young dwarf.

[Ki11aGhost]

It is a very good idea, yes, but you are also potentially setting your fortress up for a massive tantrum spiral. Do be aware that social skills are tied to being social and making friends. If you happen to lose any, the effects will be instant and devastating. However, because they have good social skills, most should be able to cope.

You could set them to idle someplace, and then throw a dog or something in to die every once in a while, giving them psychological trauma and the "Doesn't really care about anything anymore" attribute to counteract the affect of the happiness penalty for social dwarves.

[They Got Leader]

It is a very good idea, yes, but you are also potentially setting your fortress up for a massive tantrum spiral. Do be aware that social skills are tied to being social and making friends. If you happen to lose any, the effects will be instant and devastating. However, because they have good social skills, most should be able to cope.

You could set them to idle someplace, and then throw a dog or something in to die every once in a while, giving them psychological trauma and the "Doesn't really care about anything anymore" attribute to counteract the affect of the happiness penalty for social dwarves.

Yes, because what your fortress needs is 100 apathetic sociopathic drunks.

[Ki11aGhost]

Yes. What do you think that goblin ambush you just got notice of outside your doorstep is gonna do when they see 100 'apathetic sociopathic drunks' scuffling towards them with mis-matched weapons and armor?

Shit their pants.

[They Got Leader]

Yes. What do you think that goblin ambush you just got notice of outside your doorstep is gonna do when they see 100 'apathetic sociopathic drunks' scuffling towards them with mis-matched weapons and armor?

Shit their pants.

Where do you draw the line between "zombie"...?

[NCommander]

It is a very good idea, yes, but you are also potentially setting your fortress up for a massive tantrum spiral. Do be aware that social skills are tied to being social and making friends. If you happen to lose any, the effects will be instant and devastating. However, because they have good social skills, most should be able to cope.

Funny enough, this just happened. Had five dwarfs bite it as a seige came to town. 50 percent of the fort went from very happy to miserable. I've got fistfights starting across the entirity of my fort now :-)

(I've never managed to get a full blown spiral to go off, so this should be "fun". Unfortunately, I do have a walled off vampire so its possible Ancientmines might survive if a ghost doesn't get him).

Fort pop is 170. Taking odds on how low it might go as this spiral runs.

[They Got Leader]

Except vampires that you have found out don't count as your civilization, I think. If everyone else dies, then you lose.

[NCommander]

Except vampires that you have found out don't count as your civilization, I think. If everyone else dies, then you lose.

He's not revealed as a vampire (wasn't caught in the act). I walled him on a hunch and he's been in there four years and still going, he's still showing as Dwarven Hunter on his thoughts screen. So far, two wen berserk, and another five fatalities. Emergency military draft of miners has the crazies down real fast.

Unfortunately, every one is friends with everyone, so when goes mad, it sets off another wave. I've never seen a spiral before, but this is insanity. Flip side, is with everyones stats being through the rough, its actually training military skills. We're only in the beginning and I have a few novice wrestlers now because one dwarf starts a fist fight, dodge, counterattack, etc. I might end up with a military at the end of this (if anyone survives)

(or alternatives, everyone hardened out the ying-yang).

EDIT: wow. So I just had a Fisher Worker (legendary comdenian) punch a crazy ranger dead in a OHKO ... So party training works. Just be careful :-).

EDIT 2: And there goes the glass trade depot bridge (one of the glassworkers broke it). Ancientmine's entrance is now WIDE open. Takes odds on a seige showing up :-).

[GreatWyrmGold]

Except vampires that you have found out don't count as your civilization, I think. If everyone else dies, then you lose.

I think no less than Toady himself said this was wrong. It certainly doesn't matter if he was discovered or not.

[They Got Leader]

Except vampires that you have found out don't count as your civilization, I think. If everyone else dies, then you lose.

I think no less than Toady himself said this was wrong. It certainly doesn't matter if he was discovered or not.

AKA: if everyone dies, you lose.

[NCommander]

Necromancer seige JUST showed up and re-animated the corpse pile outside (since I can't get anyone to bury). Man, this is by far my favorite fort devastation I've ever had :-). I have this funny feeling that due to my uber-social dwarfs, they might win the battle. I'll keep you guys updated to let you know if social training actually works.

[thegoatgod_pan]

betting on 30+ survivors, most hardened by the experience.  Welcome to the tantrum spiral!  I honestly hate the thought that people would abandon, instead of seeing their way through the horror. I recommend giving orders for 200 coffins and setting some mason shops to build them on repeat now, the manager may bite the dust any minute.