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[kingfisher1112]

Well, I'm not tired of questioning, I'm tired of ' Oh, you didn't answer my question trawl through three pages to find it. ' It's usually when I sleep.
I asked questions anyway. That's what mafia is all about.
And it was late at night. I usually get angry when I'm tired. Being sick doesn't help either.

[Hapah]

Book: Thanks!

PotL: Welcome back!

Jim, Dar: Why are you gentlemen hanging back? Just letting all us new guys get our legs?

Kingfisher: Man, I don't know what to make of you. The accidentally answering that one question from a scum point of view instead of town, I can understand that. I glossed over the "town" in that as well once I hit the word "kill". It's a little fishy, but hardly conclusive.

But this exchange? How does it make any sort of sense? Snips for brevity, and some bold emphasis mine. (I didn't include Jim's first post, but it's somewhat relevant)

-snip-
Jim, How do you like to determine who is scum in the first day?

-snip-
By scumhunting.

Spoiler: Is there any other way? (click to show/hide)

NO

Paying close attention to everything everyone says, asking questions about anything odd that comes up, doing selective rereads to examine a player, looking for inconsistencies, aggressively questioning people, trying to get them to slip up and do something revealing, are all excellent ways to find scum.

-snip-
Jim: Thanks, you have been very helpful. Then again that is an IC's job.

-snip-
Y'know what, no. I'm not going to be fricking passive. Buddying up? With who? I don't need to ask questions. I can look at other people's responses. How am I lurking? I have been pretty goddamn active. And screw what I said. It ain't a wagon in my eyes. I no longer see it as a wagon. It is a damn good vote against a lazy town or poor scum. Getting away with silence? Screw that. Ask any damn questions you want. I'm all ears.

You ask Jim what seems like a request for advice. He gives the advice. You thank him for the advice. You then proceed to completely ignore said advice. What happened?

borno:

-snip-
dustylou2:
I was quite focused on him because he voted FBL over, what, at the time, seemed like a simple pressure vote. But when he didn't post again, I got suspicious. I voted him because he had voted someone for no reason, with no question. That on its own wouldn't of warranted a vote; but then he disappeared straight after, which looked like scum putting a vote on someone and then not bothering to take it off, even when presented with arguments why to do so.

-snip-
Deathsword: You don't have to vote to do an OMGUS.

Also, you do realize that I was scum in the last game, and that I was replaced halfway through?

You stated that this was because of Fluffy vote, and to "apply pressure". Who is to say that DS's vote was not a pressure vote?

Dar:

You're too rude.

WHAT.

[Jim Groovester]

No, I think you said that in order to try to avoid suspicions.

People make mistakes. It happens even in mafia.

When there's an issue that's easily explained by a simple misunderstanding, that's usually what it is.

Tell us, why were you so aggressive?

Being aggressive isn't a scum tell. Aggressively pursuing targets, questioning them in a dogged manner, and so on, is usually a town tell.

However, I wouldn't call what kingfisher1112 did aggressive. I'm going to avoid further elaboration on why.

Point being, do not associate aggression with scumminess.

Also, can you explain your reasoning behind your vote on Deathsword, followed by your vote on FluffyBinLaden, followed by your vote on kingfisher1112, and how it's not bandwagoning even though it really, really, uncannily looks like it?

Because it looks like you're joining whatever bandwagon is currently popular.

Jim, Dar: Why are you gentlemen hanging back? Just letting all us new guys get our legs?

That's part of it. I do like to stand back sometimes and see what the players turn up if I go without popping in all the time and telling them what to do. Since I haven't had to pop in to correct people I'm mostly satisfied with what I see. (Early on I'm looking to see lots of activity and lots of questions. Later on, if I think they can handle it, I saddle them with more advanced stuff, like criticizing the reasons for their votes, telling them what to look for, etc.)

The rest of it is I've been watching the proceedings and I haven't come across too much I want to ask about.

I'll point out that it's very generous of you to provide me with an answer to the question you're asking. Why not just chop off the last half of this? It would be more pointed and aggressive. The way it is now provides me an incredibly easy out, because you've already provided me with the answer you're expecting, and all I have to do is nod my head and say yes and then you don't get any information out of it. Because it's true I have been hanging back, and that's definitely something worth asking about, but you lose the opportunity for good information by giving the answer away.

You're either demonstrating a lot of faith in your ICs, or you're lobbing them softballs, both of which are problematic.

[Dustylou2]

Glad to see you're back, borno.

dustylou2:
I was quite focused on him because he voted FBL over, what, at the time, seemed like a simple pressure vote. But when he didn't post again, I got suspicious. I voted him because he had voted someone for no reason, with no question. That on its own wouldn't of warranted a vote; but then he disappeared straight after, which looked like scum putting a vote on someone and then not bothering to take it off, even when presented with arguments why to do so.

Could you clarify this a bit? The pronouns are bamboozling me.

kingfisher1112: OK, what? You ask no good questions (in fact stating that you don't need to!), ignore the advice of ICs, react to questioning with hostility, and contradict yourself on the issue of bandwagoning? The only reason I'm not voting you right now is because I think that there's a strong chance that you're simply new (I mean, it's a beginner mafia after all) and are completely mystified about what to do. If that's the case, remember that the ICs are here for a reason.

[Dariush]

snip as though you were tired of people questioning you. (Which, by the way, is what mafia is all about.)

No, questions is not what the mafia is all about. Questions is what RVS is all about. The rest of the mafia is about figuring out scum.

KINGFISHER. DO NOT IGNORE ICS.

Well, I'm not tired of questioning, I'm tired of ' Oh, you didn't answer my question trawl through three pages to find it. ' It's usually when I sleep.

If you have to trawl through three pages to find questions addressed to you, you aren't giving the game sufficient attention. At the very fucking least you must glance over every single post at least once and note (and, hopefully, answer) questions directed at you.

I asked questions anyway. That's what mafia is all about.

You asked two shitty questions after being prompted to. And then aped an incorrect idea.

Jim, Dar: Why are you gentlemen hanging back? Just letting all us new guys get our legs?

Mwuh? I wouldn't consider my level of activity 'hanging back'.

[kingfisher1112]

I'm so far up shit river that nothing can stop my lynch, so I'll give you guys some answers.

Dustylou: Yeah, I admit to doing all of these of these things. But some things need correction. I reacted to a question, not multiple questions with hostility. And the contradiction isn't a contradiction, I overrided it with my post. And I was never against bandwagoning, I was only against it without reason. And yeah, this is my first mafia. Ain't going so well. 

But anyway, enough of that.

Deathsword: I was kinda backing off when we started, then i fell behind, which has resulted me getting into this.

---

Y'know what, no. I'm not going to be fricking passive. Buddying up? With who? I don't need to ask questions. I can look at other people's responses. How am I lurking? I have been pretty goddamn active. And screw what I said. It ain't a wagon in my eyes. I no longer see it as a wagon. It is a damn good vote against a lazy town or poor scum. Getting away with silence? Screw that. Ask any damn questions you want. I'm all ears.
[/quote] Alright. At least you seem eager to defend yourself. Why so angry if i'm completely wrong ? Buddying: If you looked for my questions after my previous post you would know, now i suspect you just go with the flow not looking back. Not asking questions is only part of the problem here, you made no move to push the discussion forward. No suspicions,no disagreement,no pressure on anybody, simply going on and nodding is not a way to catch scum! And that's also why lurking is not the same thing as not posting. And no you can't just alter the past and change what you said. You're responsible for what you write so there is no "i take it back it's not what i wanted to write" here. Reasons why you did it would be fine but outright saying that you lied there ? That's bad. If i were to forget everything someone asks me to scumhunting would be impossible.You need to try harder than that to change my opinion.
[/quote]
Again, I was kinda angry because it was late a night. And I was putting pressure on FBL. Then he quit and I was clueless. I did not say I outright lying I was just saying ' That's not quite what I meant.' And I didn't simply forget, I simply wasn't reading as many questions as I should have.

Borno You seem really damn eager to get someone, ANYONE lynched. Looking back on your votes I can see something scummy. Please, tell me your reasonings for voting these people.

[Dariush]

KINGFISHEEEEEEEEEER

Are you intentionally ignoring me?..

[kingfisher1112]

What is it? Is it a question? An acknowledgement? What do you require?

[Hapah]

Jim:

Why not just chop off the last half of this? It would be more pointed and aggressive.

Velvet glove, iron fist. Put too sharp a point on it and people will see the line of attack; good information can be pulled from seemingly innocent questions. (And I didn't know if RL was catching up to you, but that doesn't appear to be the case)

Forgive me for not quoting the entire post, but you said this, emphasis mine.

The rest of it is I've been watching the proceedings and I haven't come across too much I want to ask about.

You yourself said that aggressive questioning is a vital part of scumhunting, but you're willing to sit in the bleachers? I can understand taking the edge off of your questions so you don't tear us new guys limb from limb, but the fact that you (an IC) aren't practicing what you preach strikes me as a little odd.

[Mr. Dwarfinton]

I apologize but I have been rather busy lately. Good luck with catching scum and such.

Replacement Request

[Jim Groovester]

I'm so far up shit river that nothing can stop my lynch, so I'll give you guys some answers.

You should be answering questions anyway.

Not ignoring people goes a long way to not being lynched, you know.

You yourself said that aggressive questioning is a vital part of scumhunting, but you're willing to sit in the bleachers? I can understand taking the edge off of your questions so you don't tear us new guys limb from limb, but the fact that you (an IC) aren't practicing what you preach strikes me as a little odd.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same thing every Beginner's Mafia. "Jim, you're doing a lot of ICing, but I don't see a lot of hunting out of you."

Early in the game, all I see is noob. It's impossible to differentiate between the things that make a player scum versus town when a player is unskilled, so much so that most BMs I spend virtually all of Day 1 getting people to shape up.

If there is something that comes along that I think is an actual scumtell, I don't hesitate to vote or ask about it, but this happens infrequently on Day 1 in most BMs. For me, anyway.

[Dustylou2]

Goodbye Mr. D, hope to see you again some other time.

borno: Reposting, since I think you missed it:

dustylou2:
I was quite focused on him because he voted FBL over, what, at the time, seemed like a simple pressure vote. But when he didn't post again, I got suspicious. I voted him because he had voted someone for no reason, with no question. That on its own wouldn't of warranted a vote; but then he disappeared straight after, which looked like scum putting a vote on someone and then not bothering to take it off, even when presented with arguments why to do so.

Could you clarify this a bit? The pronouns are bamboozling me.

Boltur: Where have you vanished to? When you get back, summarize your case on kingfisher1112.

MOD: Prod Boltur?

[Phantom of The Library]

The message came as usual, though consensus seemed to have been reached, as the day drew to a close.

Attention all Players, the votes currently
stand as follows

[Hapah] {1}: kingfisher1112
[Deathsword] {0}:
[Boltur] {0}:
[Mr. Dwarfinton] {0}:
[Dustylou2] {1}: borno
[borno] {0}:
[kingfisher1112] {7}: Mr. Dwarfinton, Dariush, Boltur, Deathsword, Jim Groovester, Hapah, borno
[Dariush] {0}:   
[Jim Groovester] {0}:

Not voting {0}:
Replacement queue {0}:

2:46 hours remain.
Day 1 will end Friday ~10:00PM CDT.
Current extension requests: zero. Four requests needed to extend the day.

Mr. Dwarfinton has requested a replacement.  The replacement queue is empty, please post in the thread or PM me if you'd like to be added.

The LurkerTracker is a wondrous thing: Tracker for this thread

Boltur has been prodded as per request.

[borno]

Hapah:

borno:

-snip-
dustylou2:
I was quite focused on him because he voted FBL over, what, at the time, seemed like a simple pressure vote. But when he didn't post again, I got suspicious. I voted him because he had voted someone for no reason, with no question. That on its own wouldn't of warranted a vote; but then he disappeared straight after, which looked like scum putting a vote on someone and then not bothering to take it off, even when presented with arguments why to do so.

-snip-
Deathsword: You don't have to vote to do an OMGUS.

Also, you do realize that I was scum in the last game, and that I was replaced halfway through?

You stated that this was because of Fluffy vote, and to "apply pressure". Who is to say that DS's vote was not a pressure vote?

In my eyes, Deathsword voted FBL because FBL had voted for him. However, Fluffy didn't post anything after that, nor did he take his vote off or at least explain it, even when he had plenty of reason to. So I shifted my vote to him. And if DS's vote was just for pressure, it didn't work, since Fluffy disappeared straight after that.

Jim:

Tell us, why were you so aggressive?

Being aggressive isn't a scum tell. Aggressively pursuing targets, questioning them in a dogged manner, and so on, is usually a town tell.

However, I wouldn't call what kingfisher1112 did aggressive. I'm going to avoid further elaboration on why.

Point being, do not associate aggression with scumminess.

Also, can you explain your reasoning behind your vote on Deathsword, followed by your vote on FluffyBinLaden, followed by your vote on kingfisher1112, and how it's not bandwagoning even though it really, really, uncannily looks like it?

Because it looks like you're joining whatever bandwagon is currently popular.

Like I have already said; I initially voted Deathsword because I thought he voted FBL because FBL had voted him. However, FBL didn't post again after that, leading me to be extremely suspicious of him. He looked like the kind of scum who puts a vote on someone and then lurks the rest of the game.

[Jim Groovester]

So do you still suspect those players for the reasons you voted them?

He looked like the kind of scum who puts a vote on someone and then lurks the rest of the game.

What kind of scum does that?