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Author Topic: Roguelike Mafia 5 - That's the last of them. [Game Over!]  (Read 62744 times)

zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #210 on: August 03, 2012, 05:22:02 pm »

zombie urist:
Well, I didn't think he had good scumhunting questions. And if you read through his posts and didn't think he was scummy, then you're wrong:P
Some examples would be nice, however.
Examples of what?
See: Bolded part.
I said I didn't think he had good scumhunting questions.
Could you explain how letting someone use a tracking scroll is less optimal, and how the latter sounds like a definite to you?
I am fairly confident Dariush is scum. Eliminating scum is good. Much better than an additional track.
How is the last statement possible when Mr. D was up for the first day lynch?
He was lynched, items went into pool, at end of day, I took it from the pool. This is pretty useless speculation though. The ? could have spawned there randomly.
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Tiruin

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #211 on: August 03, 2012, 05:31:43 pm »

I am fairly confident Dariush is scum. Eliminating scum is good. Much better than an additional track.
How is the last statement possible when Mr. D was up for the first day lynch?
He was lynched, items went into pool, at end of day, I took it from the pool. This is pretty useless speculation though. The ? could have spawned there randomly.

Supposing Mr.D and UI chose to quest, we'd have 5 items in all due to starting bonuses. You stated you got one.

So from 6 - D1 -1+3 at day end, we have 8. Now UI dies, +2 to common pool, or if he used a scroll, then +1. So 10/9 at D2 start.

But.
Quote
There is a pool of public items.  This pool starts out containing six random items, at least two of which are guaranteed to be uncommon or better.  When a player dies, their items will go into this pool.  At day start, a random common item will be removed from the pool.  The contents of this pool are not known, but I will post a count of the items at day start.

So at least, we'd have lesser than 10 items in the pool unless everything in there is uncommon. If I have the calculations wrong, correct me.
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Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #212 on: August 03, 2012, 05:43:48 pm »

I'm confused.

Pool starts with 6. MrD lynch is +2 (I bet he picked Pally as SK), UI is either +2 or +3 if he randomed in.

Toaster: Do discarded items go in the pool? (I discarded one, Merchant). Can you confirm the pool count is correct?

Lying about pulling from the pool seems like a really odd thing to lie about, though. There's probably a reasonable explanation.
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zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #213 on: August 03, 2012, 06:10:19 pm »

Why are you guys worrying about the pool?

Hapah why don't you vote?
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IronyOwl

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #214 on: August 03, 2012, 06:10:43 pm »

Dariush:
'Flagrant contradiction'? If you're referring to the 2 SKs one, then I didn't say that the actual idea was far-fetched, I said that arriving at it from basically flat ground was far-fetched, which may only mean that ZU knows something about the setup we don't.
What makes you say it's this and not just that he's dumb and not thinking it through?

His entire argument relies on him telling the truth about the kill and thus safely sitting out the day with his vote on me because I got blocked and (again, assuming he tells the truth) there was no kill other than the vigkill.
What about his claim that you've been keeping to easy votes?

As to why he's scum: In addition to the stuff I mentioned earlier, his last post basically admits that he only encouraged me on my case because I was voting someone who wasn't him. The entire 'scum/SK wouldn't claim' stuff reeks of the vilest WIFOM. When I asked him about his suspicions, he vomited out a bunch of easy excuses that consisted of abstract accusations, then threw a vote my way and proceeded to forget about the other three people he accused. Scelly got replaced, sure, but his Hapah and NF cases just evaporated. Since then, he dropped even pretences of scumhunting, instead preferring explanations of Nethack symbols.
Then why haven't you been pressing him on any of this? What is it that makes you so certain that you don't really need to dig further and can just sit on your vote the rest of the day?

Plus, he never said he was all that suspicious of NF, and he stopped hunting you because you stopped talking. It's not a great excuse for doing nothing, but it's better than yours.



ZU: What made you vote Dariush originally? Have you gained extra reasons since then? What do you think of Hapah now? NF?

I said I didn't think he had good scumhunting questions.
You know that thing you did with Dariush where you provided links and such? I wanted that for UI.

That said, I've already gone back and reread, and your reasoning sounds plausible, so I'm not really interested in that anymore. Others might, though.



Hapah:
Anyone got any insights, questions, something? It really feels like we're kinda just drifting by here.
Scumhunting, perhaps?

Why is everyone wanting to lynch Dar? Do you think he's an SK? Cult? I can't read through all the posts atm to try to distill arguments. If the former, why not let him use the scroll he claimed?
If he is an SK, he might have gotten a scroll and then not used it because he was killing, so having him track tomorrow doesn't really confirm anything, just delay it.

As for why, Bookthras is lazy and busy but doesn't like the fact that Dariush was blocked the night there was no kill, while ZU feels he was riding easy wagons and contradicting himself in his attack.

Would a nolynch be possible, or advised? Pros/cons?
Why would you even suggest this. Are you a cultist, Hapah? The pros are that we don't kill someone we don't suspect because we're too lazy to get a real suspicion. The cons are that we accomplish and learn nothing while scum gets a free night.



Bookthras:
Yeah, sorry, I've been busy. I think we don't have much more to go on but the alleged lack of a night kill and the possibility of a cult that that implies. For lack of anything better, I'd say go with a lynch of Dariush for being blocked the night there was (allegedly, again) no mafia NK, but it's rather weak.

I don't have strong suspicions on the cult at the moment, though I find Tiruin's vote on ZU and Irony's vote on Native rather suspect. Either of these may be it, and I may support a lynch of either if a strong enough argument is made.

Apologies again for spotty activity. Life's a bitch sometimes.
This seems unusually passive for you. I realize there's extenuating circumstances, but even being short on time and long on distractions, popping in here to lynch someone you don't believe in and suggest you might be open to being convinced otherwise strikes me as rather odd.



Tiruin:
BTW, looking at what Toaster wrote, my ?oDeath could have belonged to Mr. D.
How is the last statement possible when Mr. D was up for the first day lynch?
Why do you keep busting ZU on trivial things? I'm not sure how this is relevant to him being scum.

Unless you can show he's been lying, I guess, but you didn't outright challenge that he got anything from the pool at first, just that it could have come from Mr. D.



Also, mostly as a useless aside, my faith in ZU being town is a bit wobbly now. I could kind of see him panicking and doing strange, stupid things that led to the claim.
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Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #215 on: August 03, 2012, 06:14:19 pm »

Hapah:
Why is everyone wanting to lynch Dar? Do you think he's an SK? Cult? I can't read through all the posts atm to try to distill arguments. If the former, why not let him use the scroll he claimed?

Would a nolynch be possible, or advised? Pros/cons?
Interesting... why do you want to save him? Is he your only convert? What makes you think he can be compelled to use that scroll, and should town use some of its resources to double-check on him? If the cultist converts again while we're busy looking at Dariush, it's not looking good, is it?

Plus your subtle poke at a nolynch is pretty damning. What do you think will happen? If there's a cult, they'll convert, if there's a SK, they'll kill. While town gets no real information this day. Not only is it useless, it's scummy of you to bring it up.

So this, plus your defence of Dariush, plus your scummy D1 last minute vote (no, I didn't forget) make you the scummiest.


Zombie:
I am fairly confident Dariush is scum. Eliminating scum is good. Much better than an additional track.
Apologies for not having followed the thread closely enough, but can you restate/summarise why you are "fairly confident" Dariush is scum?
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #216 on: August 03, 2012, 06:17:38 pm »

IronyOwl:
As for why, Bookthras is lazy and busy but doesn't like the fact that Dariush was blocked the night there was no kill, while ZU feels he was riding easy wagons and contradicting himself in his attack.
Thanks for the summary. ZU, please confirm if this is what you meant, or if there's more.

This seems unusually passive for you. I realize there's extenuating circumstances, but even being short on time and long on distractions, popping in here to lynch someone you don't believe in and suggest you might be open to being convinced otherwise strikes me as rather odd.
Yeah, sorry. As I said, I didn't really have much more to go on, and have not followed as closely as I should have. Still, my post right above hopes to address at least the latest news, and I do find it interesting how you make this argument when one of the lynches I said I might support was yours...
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #217 on: August 03, 2012, 06:21:41 pm »

Book: I fed you shrooms N1 (Hallucination Scroll). I don't know what the hell Dar is, but the cases I've seen seem thin.

All I'm saying is it feels like we've been sitting on our collective asses all day, so a lynch might not be the best idea. That's it! And if there is a cult, I doubt they can convert tonight anyway (how would we catch them with lynches if a new one is created every day, unless we got them D1? Pray for items?)

He's claimed an item that he can prove he used, or he'll have to have a damn good guess if he doesn't actually have it. All I'm saying is give the man his chance.
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Tiruin

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #218 on: August 03, 2012, 06:30:22 pm »

I'm confused.

Pool starts with 6. MrD lynch is +2 (I bet he picked Pally as SK), UI is either +2 or +3 if he randomed in.

Toaster: Do discarded items go in the pool? (I discarded one, Merchant). Can you confirm the pool count is correct?

Lying about pulling from the pool seems like a really odd thing to lie about, though. There's probably a reasonable explanation.

Wait, Mod: Does questing//getting from the common pool happen before a lynch, or after?



Tiruin:
BTW, looking at what Toaster wrote, my ?oDeath could have belonged to Mr. D.
How is the last statement possible when Mr. D was up for the first day lynch?
Why do you keep busting ZU on trivial things? I'm not sure how this is relevant to him being scum.

Unless you can show he's been lying, I guess, but you didn't outright challenge that he got anything from the pool at first, just that it could have come from Mr. D.
I'm trying to get there, checking the small details about his vigkill.
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zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #219 on: August 03, 2012, 06:31:24 pm »

ZU: What made you vote Dariush originally? Have you gained extra reasons since then? What do you think of Hapah now? NF?
Combination of him being blocked and his D1 actions. My full reasons are listed below. Hapah is being pretty scummy, but not as much as Dariush. I'll need a reread to be sure. I don't think NF is scum.

Book: I fed you shrooms N1 (Hallucination Scroll). I don't know what the hell Dar is, but the cases I've seen seem thin.
All I'm saying is it feels like we've been sitting on our collective asses all day, so a lynch might not be the best idea. That's it! And if there is a cult, I doubt they can convert tonight anyway (how would we catch them with lynches if a new one is created every day, unless we got them D1? Pray for items?)
He's claimed an item that he can prove he used, or he'll have to have a damn good guess if he doesn't actually have it. All I'm saying is give the man his chance.
No it doesn't. All it proves is that he has the item. Why wouldn't cult be able to convert tonight?

Bookthras:
Copy and Pasted from a previous post.
Quote
For everyone's convenience, here's why I'm voting Dariush.
On D1, Dariush's vote stayed on the easy lynches, Mr. D and BMC. This post looks like a strategic un-bandwagoning on Mr. D. I also don't like how Dariush is the only one who made no comments on Irony's attack on Mr. D.
Note his first post on D2 and compare it to Bookthras' post above. His vote and FoS are flipped on Native and Hapah. Also he says PPE'd by Book, but there is a half hour difference between those posts. Dariush has been dismissing everything with lazy one-liners. Examples here and here.

Some stuff on UI. 1 2. Don't see much scumhunting there.

BMC needs a prod.
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Tiruin

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2012, 06:36:05 pm »

Some stuff on UI. 1 2. Don't see much scumhunting there.
What is your definition of scumhunting?
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Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2012, 06:37:32 pm »

ZU: If the cult gets a convert every day, and we get a lynch every day, how would we ever catch up? They're make one, we'd lynch one, they'd make one, we'd lynch one, until we've run out of people.

I did just realize that cult might have a limited number of converts though, which could let them convert every night? Hm.
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zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2012, 06:39:43 pm »

ZU: If the cult gets a convert every day, and we get a lynch every day, how would we ever catch up? They're make one, we'd lynch one, they'd make one, we'd lynch one, until we've run out of people.
I did just realize that cult might have a limited number of converts though, which could let them convert every night? Hm.
Not lynching them isn't going to help either. We have to lynch the cult leader.

What is your definition of scumhunting?
Actively looking for scum.
Seriously Tiruin I think you're just stalling for time now...
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Tiruin

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #223 on: August 03, 2012, 06:50:35 pm »

What is your definition of scumhunting?
Actively looking for scum.
Seriously Tiruin I think you're just stalling for time now...
And seriously, I think you're dodging the question.

There, I see UI actively looking for scum by his questioning.

Anyway, why is everyone focused on the thoughts about a cult? While I can understand the reasoning, Toaster didn't give the exact number of scum present unlike last games, and only gave a hint of a cult in flavor.

Hapah: So why can't we get a lynch today? What makes you sure that Dariush == town because he can track someone and probably have a confirmation?

As said by this assumption
PFP

Why is everyone wanting to lynch Dar? Do you think he's an SK? Cult? I can't read through all the posts atm to try to distill arguments. If the former, why not let him use the scroll he claimed?

Would a nolynch be possible, or advised? Pros/cons?

You put a FoS on him earlier, what made you drop it?
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Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - Priest with a Plan [Day 2]
« Reply #224 on: August 03, 2012, 06:53:49 pm »

He answered the question. He might've used the wrong word, he's done it before. I'm not saying he smells like roses, but he's either going to mess up the track (for which he'll get lynched) or he'll not track and kill/convert someone (at which point he'll get lynched). I'm just not sure enough to lynch.
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